Page 23 of 31 FirstFirst ... 132122232425 ... LastLast
Results 221 to 230 of 305

Thread: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

  1. #221
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    05-19-10 @ 07:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    496

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Are the seniors signing a contract for their free lunch, or are they just showing up?
    The contract is with Senior Citizens Inc. - a private charity. They are the purveyors of these meals and the ones who placed the restriction on group prayer, for fear of losing their Federal funding; my point is that the Georgia state government has no legal authority to withdraw this funding, as it was lawfully appropriated by an act of Congress, nor do they have the authority to impose terms and conditions that were never contractually agreed upon.

    I don't think it caries the burden of it, but if such things are decided, those who eat the free lunch can always choose to not accept the free lunch and continue to practice overt religious displays.

    It's only unconstitutional if they are forced to not pray in any and all circumstances.

    But in this case they can gather prior to the meal at a separate location and pray as a group if they wish, or they can find some other way to get a free meal that doesn't have said restrictions and pray as group before they eat.
    On what basis would this decision be rendered? The funding was lawfully appropriated by an act of Congress, and the Georgia state government contracted with Senior Citizens Inc. to dispense of these funds. Unless the contract explicitly prohibits overt displays of religiosity during the purveyance of these meals, there would be no legal standing for imposing such a prohibition.

  2. #222
    Sage
    Lord Tammerlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:56 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    10,432

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    You are lying. No one is being forced to pray. The group-led prayer is ENTIRELY OPTIONAL.



    Once again, this is just a massive distortion of what is actually occurring. The group prayer is TOTALLY VOLUNTARY. Nobody has to pray, they all simply CHOOSE to.

    You do know what those words mean, don't you!? Optional, voluntary, choose - would you like a dictionary?
    So this means that people who decide not to take part in the group prayer can talk to their friends during the group prayer?
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
    Happy Christmas Merry New Year Festivus for the rest of us

  3. #223
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    The contract is with Senior Citizens Inc. - a private charity. They are the purveyors of these meals and the ones who placed the restriction on group prayer, for fear of losing their Federal funding; my point is that the Georgia state government has no legal authority to withdraw this funding, as it was lawfully appropriated by an act of Congress, nor do they have the authority to impose terms and conditions that were never contractually agreed upon.
    And the part in bold is their right.

    The feds can't say that they have to unless they do so at the point the contract is renewed or created (they can choose not to renew said contract unless there is such a restriction)

    On what basis would this decision be rendered? The funding was lawfully appropriated by an act of Congress, and the Georgia state government contracted with Senior Citizens Inc. to dispense of these funds. Unless the contract explicitly prohibits overt displays of religiosity during the purveyance of these meals, there would be no legal standing for imposing such a prohibition.
    Senior Citizens Inc could render such a decision without any justification if they so choose.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  4. #224
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,145

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    the federal government cannot provide funds to a third party within the USA where that third party does not have to abide by the Constitutional provisions
    that publicly lead prayer represents control, leading the attendees in a prayer of a given denomination
    for the federal government to subsidize such action would constitute a violation of the Bill of Rights, by exposing the guests to a prayer which they may not welcome
    just as i am certain you would oppose having to sit thru a prayer inveighing against Christians, led by an extremist muslim, should that be the prayer leader for the day
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  5. #225
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    05-19-10 @ 07:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    496

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    And the part in bold is their right.
    I never said it wasn't. Fact remains, they didn't want to and only did so out of fear for losing their funding. Once they found out that fear was unfounded, they quickly reversed their position.

    The feds can't say that they have to unless they do so at the point the contract is renewed or created (they can choose not to renew said contract unless there is such a restriction).
    I agree, however, such a provision would most likely be subject to a Constitutional challenge under the First Amendment.

    Senior Citizens Inc could render such a decision without any justification if they so choose.
    I agree, but they don't HAVE to, which is what I've been arguing since the very beginning.

  6. #226
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    05-19-10 @ 07:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    496

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    So this means that people who decide not to take part in the group prayer can talk to their friends during the group prayer?
    Of course they can, although I'm inclined to believe that everyone present WANTS to pray, seeing as how they are elderly southerners.

  7. #227
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    05-19-10 @ 07:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    496

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the federal government cannot provide funds to a third party within the USA where that third party does not have to abide by the Constitutional provisions
    You show an astounding ignorance of the law.

    1. The Constitution does not apply to individuals, only government.

    2. Assuming it did apply to individuals, what specific "provision" of the Constitution would a voluntary group prayer violate?

    that publicly lead prayer represents control, leading the attendees in a prayer of a given denomination
    for the federal government to subsidize such action would constitute a violation of the Bill of Rights, by exposing the guests to a prayer which they may not welcome
    just as i am certain you would oppose having to sit thru a prayer inveighing against Christians, led by an extremist muslim, should that be the prayer leader for the day
    An absurd distortion of what is actually occurring. Your dishonesty knows no bounds.

  8. #228
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    I never said it wasn't. Fact remains, they didn't want to and only did so out of fear for losing their funding. Once they found out that fear was unfounded, they quickly reversed their position.
    Their decision.



    I agree, however, such a provision would most likely be subject to a Constitutional challenge under the First Amendment.
    And since Seniors Inc as well as their patrons would be making a choice to accept those funds for their own benefit, but are not restricted from the free exercise of religion in any way, that challenge would hopefully fail.



    I agree, but they don't HAVE to, which is what I've been arguing since the very beginning.
    You were saying that the group led prayer is entirely optional.

    I was accurately pointing out that so was accepting the government cheese. Optional for both the seniors and Seniors Inc.

    In neither case are rights violated.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  9. #229
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    05-19-10 @ 07:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    496

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Their decision.
    Agreed.

    And since Seniors Inc as well as their patrons would be making a choice to accept those funds for their own benefit, but are not restricted from the free exercise of religion in any way, that challenge would hopefully fail.
    It depends, I suppose. If the Congress appropriates funds and imposes such a precondition on the dispensation and usage of those funds, it could reasonably be viewed as "prohibiting the free exercise thereof." I'm not saying this is the correct view, just one that could be reasonably held.

    You were saying that the group led prayer is entirely optional.

    I was accurately pointing out that so was accepting the government cheese. Optional for both the seniors and Seniors Inc.

    In neither case are rights violated.
    Congress appropriates funds to the military, too. Do you think restricting the presence of Chaplains or religious services in the military would be supported by your premise?

  10. #230
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,145

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    You show an astounding ignorance of the law.

    1. The Constitution does not apply to individuals, only government.


    2. Assuming it did apply to individuals, what specific "provision" of the Constitution would a voluntary group prayer violate?



    An absurd distortion of what is actually occurring. Your dishonesty knows no bounds.
    may i have permission to use the hi-lited segment of that post in my signature?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

Page 23 of 31 FirstFirst ... 132122232425 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •