Page 22 of 31 FirstFirst ... 122021222324 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 220 of 305

Thread: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

  1. #211
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    05-19-10 @ 07:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    496

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Actually, no. I think they should act however they want - if they want private support. If you'd read all my posts in this thread, I've already pointed out a privately funded charity that kicked out a Jew because he wouldn't pray to Jesus. I think that's terrible; but since it's completely privately funded, they can do what they want.

    If you take government assistance, you take rules along with it.

    Sorry, but that's the fact.

    A silent prayer OPTION is a true OPTION. A group-led prayer is forced upon everyone who attends.
    You are lying. No one is being forced to pray. The group-led prayer is ENTIRELY OPTIONAL.

    One takes nothing away from anyone. The other provides only the option of what the majority of the group thinks and damns everyone else.

    Why is decency and privacy such an imposition? It's only an imposition to those who like to force their beliefs upon everyone around them.

    If the government is going to support an organization, then said organization shouldn't focus a moment of prayer upon one groups interpretation of one religion. Do they do Buddhist prayers? Jewish prayers?

    A moment of silence allows everyone to do as they wish - not limiting anyone's religious expression. A group prayer forces those not a part of the group to participate in a prayer they may or may not believe in.
    Once again, this is just a massive distortion of what is actually occurring. The group prayer is TOTALLY VOLUNTARY. Nobody has to pray, they all simply CHOOSE to.

    You do know what those words mean, don't you!? Optional, voluntary, choose - would you like a dictionary?

  2. #212
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    You are lying. No one is being forced to pray. The group-led prayer is ENTIRELY OPTIONAL.
    So is eating government cheese. No one is being forced not to pray. They simply CHOOSE not to have a group prayer by eating free food.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  3. #213
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    05-19-10 @ 07:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    496

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    So is eating government cheese. No one is being forced not to pray. They simply CHOOSE not to have a group prayer by eating free food.
    What does this have to do with anything? Is there some law which forbids recipients of Federal monies from engaging in religious activities?

  4. #214
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    What does this have to do with anything? Is there some law which forbids recipients of Federal monies from engaging in religious activities?
    They want a free meal on the taxpayer dime, they gotta deal with the rules. They don't like it, tough titty. They can buy their own dinners if they don't like it.

    I think more rules of behavior should be enforces when one suckles at the federal teat. Arbitrary and uncomfortable ones at that.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  5. #215
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    05-19-10 @ 07:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    496

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    They want a free meal on the taxpayer dime, they gotta deal with the rules.
    What rules? Could you be more specific?

    They don't like it, tough titty. They can buy their own dinners if they don't like it.

    I think more rules of behavior should be enforces when one suckles at the federal teat. Arbitrary and uncomfortable ones at that.
    The Congress has the explicit authority to appropriate funds towards specifically enumerated ends. Although many disagree on what exactly those ends are, the idea that the Federal government can impose restrictions (religious or otherwise) on private contractors AFTER THE FACT is simply not supported by law.

    For instance, the Congress has the explicit authority to appropriate monies towards post roads. Suppose the Congress contracted with a private company to build some of these post roads. Also suppose that the foreman and his employees said a group prayer prior to starting the project. What you're suggesting is that the Federal government would be able to impose terms that were never contractually agreed upon or specified, i.e., forbidding group prayer.

    So, unless the contract between the Georgia state government and Senior Citizens Inc. states explicitly, "Senior Citizens Inc. may not engage in group prayer during purveyances funded, partially or wholly, by the Federal government." You have no legal standing for imposing such "rules".

    Moreover, if such a term were inserted into the contract, it would most likely fail to pass Constitutional muster (re: First and Fourteenth Amendments).

    You can maintain that this funding is not Constitutional, and I would probably agree with you, but that is not currently at issue. The issue is whether or not the presence of Federal monies automatically carries with it the burden of forbidding any and all religious activities (it does not). Since Senior Citizens Inc. has reversed their position, and since the legal analysis I have provided is sound, there is no reason for anyone in this thread to continue with such a line of reasoning.

  6. #216
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    What rules? Could you be more specific?
    Any and all rules imposed by those who give them the free meals.



    The issue is whether or not the presence of Federal monies automatically carries with it the burden of forbidding any and all religious activities (it does not).
    "Any and all religious activities" have not been forbidden in this case, so how could that be the issue?
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  7. #217
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    virginia
    Last Seen
    04-01-13 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    16,881
    Blog Entries
    19

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    What does this have to do with anything? Is there some law which forbids recipients of Federal monies from engaging in religious activities?
    There is no law that forbids it, however the federal money is often withdrawn when they engage in these activities on the taypayers dime.

    Stuff like that.

  8. #218
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    05-19-10 @ 07:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    496

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Any and all rules imposed by those who give them the free meals.
    They can only impose rules and terms which have been contractually agreed upon and specified, unless, of course, you think the government can just break a contract anytime it wants to.

    "Any and all religious activities" have not been forbidden in this case, so how could that be the issue?
    Good point. Allow me to clarify: The issue is whether or not the presence of Federal monies automatically carries with it the burden of forbidding overt displays of religiosity, such as a group prayer; obviously, this is not the case. Or do you disagree?

  9. #219
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Last Seen
    05-19-10 @ 07:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    496

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    There is no law that forbids it, however the federal money is often withdrawn when they engage in these activities on the taypayers dime.

    Stuff like that.
    On what basis is the money being withdrawn? If the Congress appropriates funds via an enactment of legislation, some bureaucrat cannot simply ignore the terms and conditions of that appropriation; only by another enactment or vote may the Congress withdraw funding. As it stands, this funding is lawful, and the manner it which it is to be dispensed has been contractually specified; imposing rules after the fact is unlawful, and no government bureaucrat has the authority to withdraw funding that was approved by an act of Congress.
    Last edited by 1984; 05-13-10 at 04:30 PM.

  10. #220
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Ga. Seniors Told They Can't Pray Before Meals

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    They can only impose rules and terms which have been contractually agreed upon and specified, unless, of course, you think the government can just break a contract anytime it wants to.
    Are the seniors signing a contract for their free lunch, or are they just showing up?



    Good point. Allow me to clarify: The issue is whether or not the presence of Federal monies automatically carries with it the burden of forbidding overt displays of religiosity, such as a group prayer; obviously, this is not the case. Or do you disagree?
    I don't think it caries the burden of it, but if such things are decided, those who eat the free lunch can always choose to not accept the free lunch and continue to practice overt religious displays.

    It's only unconstitutional if they are forced to not pray in any and all circumstances.

    But in this case they can gather prior to the meal at a separate location and pray as a group if they wish, or they can find some other way to get a free meal that doesn't have said restrictions and pray as group before they eat.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

Page 22 of 31 FirstFirst ... 122021222324 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •