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Thread: Holder wants new look at Miranda rights

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    Re: Holder wants new look at Miranda rights

    Why should it be inadmissible, that person arrest should have already learned about the constitution in school? We don't force gun store clerks to remind customers that they have the right to keep and bear arms. Nor for we force churches and religious bookstores to remind their congregation and customers of their right to freedom of religion.
    If someone is unknowledgeable about their rights then they don't have the ability to knowingly waive them. It isn't about what your rights are but rather about your ability to voluntarily waive them.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Holder wants new look at Miranda rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    If someone is unknowledgeable about their rights then they don't have the ability to knowingly waive them. It isn't about what your rights are but rather about your ability to voluntarily waive them.
    Then that is the fault and responsibility of the individual, not the police.Again we do not force churches, gun stores, newsstands, book stores and other places to read constitutional rights. If anything should be mandated it should be school classes on constitutional rights, not forcing cops to remind people.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 05-09-10 at 11:02 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Holder wants new look at Miranda rights

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage
    Then that is the fault and responsibility of the individual, not the police.Again we do not force churches, gun stores, newsstands, book stores and other places to read constitutional rights.
    Your comparison is invalid because the Miranda warning is not about simply informing people of their rights. It is about informing people about their ability to voluntarily waive them or to refuse to do so.

    I'm not sure why you can't understand the difference between the two.

    And the reasoning behind it is that if one is not aware of one's rights then any information obtained through interrogation is based on coercion.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 05-09-10 at 11:03 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Holder wants new look at Miranda rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Your comparison is invalid because the Miranda warning is not about simply informing people of their rights. It is about informing people about their ability to voluntarily waive them or to refuse to do so.

    I'm not sure why you can't understand the difference between the two.
    Isn't a constitutional right something that the government can not force you to do or take away? For example you as an American citizen has the right to buy a firearm but the government can not infringe on that right but at the same time they can not force you to have a gun.


    And the reasoning behind it is that if one is not aware of one's rights then any information obtained through interrogation is based on coercion.
    And Again we do not force churches, gun stores, newsstands, book stores and other places to read constitutional rights.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 05-09-10 at 11:10 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Holder wants new look at Miranda rights

    And Again we do not force churches, gun stores, newsstands, book stores and other places to read constitutional rights.
    And once again that is because this is not about the reading of rights but about the informing people of their ability to choose whether or not they wish to voluntarily waive those rights.

    "They should have known" is not an argument, because of the fact that if someone is unaware of their fifth amendment rights then any information obtained through interrogation was based on coercion.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  6. #16
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    Re: Holder wants new look at Miranda rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    And once again that is because this is not about the reading of rights but about the informing people of their ability to choose whether or not they wish to voluntarily waive those rights.
    You have the right to not exercise any right, which is one of the things that makes it a right in the first since it is not forced. Its impossible to to call something a right if your forced to exercise it.

    "They should have known" is not an argument, because of the fact that if someone is unaware of their fifth amendment rights then any information obtained through interrogation was based on coercion.
    If someone allows the police to coerce them then that is their fault. It is not the constitutional responsibility of anyone to remind you of your rights.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Holder wants new look at Miranda rights

    If someone allows the police to coerce them then that is their fault.
    The entire history of the US legal system disagrees with you so I think we're done here.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Holder wants new look at Miranda rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Being required to read someone their rights is retarded in the first place.

    Of course, I rarely if ever read rights to an arrested suspect now, so I guess it doesn't make a difference to me.
    By law, as set forth in the landmark Miranda case, law enforcement is only require to read a suspect his rights before they question him.

    A failure to do so renders anything said suspect says "fruit of the posionous tree" (makes it in admissable in court).

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    Re: Holder wants new look at Miranda rights

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Hell even Beck believed that the guy was entitled to his Miranda rights as US citizen! This is sick road we're taking and its only getting worse.
    Thats Hope and Change for you...

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    Re: Holder wants new look at Miranda rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Thats Hope and Change for you...
    As a whole it's YOUR party that's been pushing hardest for this so I'd keep some perspective if I were you.

    Removing rights from terrorists is removing rights from everyone.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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