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Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

Dav said:
It's always amazed me how so many libertarians end up being so elitist, without really realizing the contradiction.
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Maybe this is why...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/relig...ee-episode-glenn-beck-faith-our-founders.html

Note the lack of objectivity, the need to reinforce paradigms over honest seeking of historical information, and the inability to screen for source bias.

Libertarians, at least, have learned to think for themselves to some degree. All too many partisans are spoon-fed their opinions, and form their judgements on the basis of what the partisan hacks say.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Maybe this is why...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/relig...ee-episode-glenn-beck-faith-our-founders.html

Note the lack of objectivity, the need to reinforce paradigms over honest seeking of historical information, and the inability to screen for source bias.

Libertarians, at least, have learned to think for themselves to some degree. All too many partisans are spoon-fed their opinions, and form their judgements on the basis of what the partisan hacks say.
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In that vein, wouldn't ALL information be needed then? What is Obama afraid of?


j-mac
 
j-mac said:
In that vein, wouldn't ALL information be needed then? What is Obama afraid of?

j-mac
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There is a limit to how much information we can absorb in a given time frame. And given that information, these days, comes in the same form that other stuff on the TV and computer comes in, we use up some of those resources with things like the XBox.

While there is nothing wrong with that in itself, however it is a side effect, that we than compress the information we would otherwise receive in other sources, to soundbytes and sensationalism. We are our own worst enemy in this regard because of our own limitations and other competing factors.

Because the information we get is incomplete, due to the previously mentioned limitations, and the wide array available. We tend do what is easy for us and choose the information sources that agree with what we already believe, which further reinforces it and creates a feedback loop. It is a very real problem with no real solution.
 
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Dr_Patrick said:
You attack him on everything that you can tie him to. For instance, on this particular issue he had a very valid point. However, you found a way to blame him for something. It just gets old. :shrug:

You are no better than the liberals who attacked Palin, Bush, etc. for everything under the sun.



And you would be wrong. :roll:

Why don't you see for yourself?
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Your opinion is that he has a valid point. That's fine, and you're welcome to it. I think he's a political animal for whom one has to look beyond just the basic of his message. What's motivating him?

And that's where my problem with Obama starts, and where you are gullible for taking anything he says at face value.
 
j-mac said:
In that vein, wouldn't ALL information be needed then? What is Obama afraid of?


j-mac
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It's not that information isn't needed. It's that there is so much information and our society has not kept pace in terms of teaching people how to objectively interpret and process that information.

He wasn't promoting shutting down information. He was suggesting that students need to learn how to wisely USE information. I would agree with that, as well.

Think about the conflicting messages that kids receive from a thousand different directions in regards to sex and their bodies. How do you teach your children how to sort through and interpret all of that conflicting information? It's complicated.
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
It's not that information isn't needed. It's that there is so much information and our society has not kept pace in terms of teaching people how to objectively interpret and process that information.
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Shouldn't that interpretation be left to the individual garnering the information? When you say that "society" needs to "teach people how to objectively process that information", aren't you REALLY saying we need to control the message?


j-mac
 
What is 'elitist' about saying that technology has actually made people more prone to misinformation? This has been true since the day mass print was perfected. Can anybody name a single medium of conveying information that hasn't been used to bombard people with misinformation? Nothing to do with wanting to control a medium. Just a social commentary. The internet is the perfect example of just what a society can do with a global medium for transferring information. 90% of the internet is made up of porn and the other 10% is used for miscellaneous crap. More people are misinformed because it is so easy to simply go online and type what you want to hear instead of the truth.

You will find websites, video games, movies online validating misinformation. All the Alex Jones videos seem to be online. All filled with massive lies about governments. You have David Ike online conducting chat sessions with thousands and putting out articles about the vaccines the evil lizard race is creating to control us all. These are just examples of the amount of misinformation there is on the internet.

Obama is absolutely right, technology has made humanity stupid. We're lazy. We have no desire to learn about the past from people who've studied it. We'd rather hear it from some kid on YouTube. Critical thought is dying one brain cell at a time.

This ridiculous assertion that Obama hates the internet or is afraid of it when his entire campaign was basically organized with the help of the internet is ridiculous. Dozens of articles were written on just how successful Obama's organizers were in using the internet to organize rallies and bring exposure to him.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7412045.stm

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/how-obamas-internet-campaign-changed-politics/

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/11/propelled-by-in/

http://www.allbusiness.com/media-telecommunications/internet-www/14178948-1.html
 
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Catz Part Deux said:
Think about the conflicting messages that kids receive from a thousand different directions in regards to sex and their bodies. How do you teach your children how to sort through and interpret all of that conflicting information? It's complicated.
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More importantly, is enough of society even capable of that level of thought? Often, I fear the answer is no.
 
j-mac said:
In that vein, wouldn't ALL information be needed then? What is Obama afraid of?


j-mac
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I don't think it's necessarily being "afraid". To be honest, I think most politicians up there in DC would be afraid of the whole truth. They're all hiding something. But the point isn't that information is bad or anything, it's the manner by which the information is prescribed. It all goes through polarization optics before hitting us, and it's become incredibly dangerous and harmful to the overall communication of information and the use of critical thinking skills. We've been given so much in such a little amount of time that it starts to become impossible to wade through it all. Then you add on top of that the polarized and spin laden nature of our media.

We're not taught to think, we're not taught to look things up, research, check, understand. We sit in front of the boob tube and we absorb, and what we're absorbing is fast becoming filth. We listen to the Fox News and the MSNBC and we take it unquestioningly. But what we're given is highly polarized and one sided accounts of events. I don't tend to agree with Obama, but what he says here is true. Think about the health care debate. Now there was actually plenty of room for debate, no matter which side you come down on for this issue. Plenty of logical, rational debate to be had. But what we got were instead knee jerk reactions. Obama is a socialist, Republicans want people to die, blah blah blah blah. There was no real information in there. It was all just hyperpartisan bull****, and that's starting to become all that's given out. It's more entertaining, it's more lively, it gets better ratings, it keeps us from thinking, etc.

It's high time we see it all for what it is and try to get back to thinking about problems, about doing a bit of research now and then, time to keep educated about the system and participate in it. That's the only way we can keep this Republic.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
It's not that information isn't needed. It's that there is so much information and our society has not kept pace in terms of teaching people how to objectively interpret and process that information.
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And what way is that? Why do you say this? Because certain venues of information don't agree with YOUR outlook on life? I think it's liberating how much information is available for people to consume.
Catz Part Deux said:
He wasn't promoting shutting down information. He was suggesting that students need to learn how to wisely USE information. I would agree with that, as well.
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And who and how is this conveyed to children? What set off the "Obama's wrong" flags were his singling out Talk Radio and the like. I.E. Right Wing sources are bad was the message in there. And blogs, blogs are the antithesis of the MSM.

Catz Part Deux said:
Think about the conflicting messages that kids receive from a thousand different directions in regards to sex and their bodies. How do you teach your children how to sort through and interpret all of that conflicting information? It's complicated.
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It is complicated, what solution have you? A single approved source for all information?
 
j-mac said:
Shouldn't that interpretation be left to the individual garnering the information? When you say that "society" needs to "teach people how to objectively process that information", aren't you REALLY saying we need to control the message?


j-mac
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Not at all. I meant exactly what I said. Kids need, just like adults, to learn how to fact-check, to sort biased sources from unbiased sources, and how to understand the motivations underneath an article or story.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Not at all. I meant exactly what I said. Kids need, just like adults, to learn how to fact-check, to sort biased sources from unbiased sources, and how to understand the motivations underneath an article or story.
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And we should trust Obama, or his administration to do that?


j-mac
 
megaprogman said:
More importantly, is enough of society even capable of that level of thought? Often, I fear the answer is no.
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j-mac said:
Shouldn't that interpretation be left to the individual garnering the information? When you say that "society" needs to "teach people how to objectively process that information", aren't you REALLY saying we need to control the message?

j-mac
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This is what I mean :(
 
MrVicchio said:
Your opinion is that he has a valid point. That's fine, and you're welcome to it. I think he's a political animal for whom one has to look beyond just the basic of his message. What's motivating him?

And that's where my problem with Obama starts, and where you are gullible for taking anything he says at face value.
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I really could care less what motivated him to say it. He's absolutely right. And I think it's silly for anyone to speculate on what his motivation was, especially for purely partisan reasons.
 
j-mac said:
Shouldn't that interpretation be left to the individual garnering the information? When you say that "society" needs to "teach people how to objectively process that information", aren't you REALLY saying we need to control the message?


j-mac
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Nope. When you say that society needs to teach people how to objectively process that information it means that society needs to teach people how to objectively process that information. That's it. And it's true. Because of information overload, we have to learn how to disseminate the proper information from the sea of propaganda, hyperbole, and spin. It takes critical thinking skills, and if we don't employ them then we will be swept away in a torrent of misinformation and partisan hackery. Critical thinking has always been important to the human race.
 
Ikari said:
Nope. When you say that society needs to teach people how to objectively process that information it means that society needs to teach people how to objectively process that information. That's it. And it's true. Because of information overload, we have to learn how to disseminate the proper information from the sea of propaganda, hyperbole, and spin. It takes critical thinking skills, and if we don't employ them then we will be swept away in a torrent of misinformation and partisan hackery. Critical thinking has always been important to the human race.
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The term "Critical Thinking" has often been used to denigrate those not in agreement with liberal agenda.


j-mac
 
MrVicchio said:
And what way is that? Why do you say this? Because certain venues of information don't agree with YOUR outlook on life? I think it's liberating how much information is available for people to consume.
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Very few venues of information agree with my outlook on life. I'm centrist, which means that I tend to think that the liberals are wrong as often as the conservatives. Since most media these days has some kind of spin, I want my children to be able to identify biased information, fact-check it, look at multiple sources of evidence, and form their OWN opinion.

And who and how is this conveyed to children? What set off the "Obama's wrong" flags were his singling out Talk Radio and the like. I.E. Right Wing sources are bad was the message in there. And blogs, blogs are the antithesis of the MSM.
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When someone says Blog, I think about the Daily Kos at the same time I think of Indapundit. I think that both sides of the political spectrum have problems with bias, and only present the information that agrees with their own paradigms. That's why I read a variety of sources.

It is complicated, what solution have you? A single approved source for all information?
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I already mentioned it. I learned to critically examine sources in school, particularly in my composition classes and in logic. I was also a debater, which taught me to look at both sides of an argument and weigh their pros and cons.

I think all kids should have experiences like that.
 
j-mac said:
The term "Critical Thinking" has often been used to denigrate those not in agreement with liberal agenda.


j-mac
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In this context, we're using it to denigrate people who don't exercise a capacity for independent thought, from both sides of the political spectrum. Neither Ikari or I are particularly partisan.
 
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j-mac said:
The term "Critical Thinking" has often been used to denigrate those not in agreement with liberal agenda.


j-mac
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Critical thinking here means critical thinking. I'd thank you for not turning this so quickly into a hyperpartisan bitch fest and prove me correct so soon.
 
j-mac said:
The term "Critical Thinking" has often been used to denigrate those not in agreement with liberal agenda.


j-mac
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I'd love to see evidence of this. :2wave:
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Very few venues of information agree with my outlook on life. I'm centrist, which means that I tend to think that the liberals are wrong as often as the conservatives. Since most media these days has some kind of spin, I want my children to be able to identify biased information, fact-check it, look at multiple sources of evidence, and form their OWN opinion.
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Thanks to the current administration, we live in an era where the supposed fact checkers are also biased.


j-mac
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I really could care less what motivated him to say it.
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That's the worst stance one can take with a politician, of any party, of any stripe.
Dr_Patrick said:
He's absolutely right.
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And I disagree that he was "absolutely right". Some of his commentary had merit, there IS a lot of information out there and people need to choose wisely what information they consume. But he didn't end it with that, it was the rest of his commentary that took it from a good comment to wrong.

Dr_Patrick said:
And I think it's silly for anyone to speculate on what his motivation was, especially for purely partisan reasons.
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It's OBAMA, he's the most purely partisan President in History, he makes Nixon look like a centrist uniter.
 
MrVicchio said:
That's the worst stance one can take with a politician, of any party, of any stripe.
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If it was something of importance I would feel differently. This particular instance isn't important to me. He made a valid statement. However, you seem to think there's some underlying motivation so that you can blame him for something.

And I disagree that he was "absolutely right". Some of his commentary had merit, there IS a lot of information out there and people need to choose wisely what information they consume. But he didn't end it with that, it was the rest of his commentary that took it from a good comment to wrong.
It's OBAMA, he's the most purely partisan President in History, he makes Nixon look like a centrist uniter.
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If you think I'm going to take your analysis of Obama as gospel, you are kidding yourself. You've made it very clear how you feel about Obama.
 
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