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Thread: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    Everyone can be tempted into smugness and intellectual superiority. When Democrats become more popular, Republicans become tempted to blame the media for making people stupid (i.e. disagreeing with them). When Republicans become more popular, Democrats become more tempted to blame the media for making people stupid (i.e. disagree with them). Libertarians and other fringe ideologies can be in this state perpetually.

    Conservatives may disagree with Obama now - IMO, rightfully - but as soon as the Democrats become popular, all the talk about modern distractions and partisan pundits shaping opinion will start coming from them. Though even then some liberals might be inclined to agree, since their ideology is more elitist to begin with.
    What I'm saying though, is two things. Firstly, it doesn't matter where it's coming from. The presentation that there is a lot of information out there and one must look at it all critically, regardless of what your political lean is, is essential. Secondly, look at some of the folks in this thread. People claiming that Obama is trying to control the media by his statement. This is clearly a falsehood, but when folks start spinning things like this, there will be extremists who, because of their own cognitive dissonance at believing anything that doesn't agree with their narrow view, will buy into it, no matter how inaccurate it is. What I and others are suggesting is to think and examine critically, regardless of your lean.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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  2. #182
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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    You read incorrect. I cannot make this any clearer, I seriously don't know what your problem is.

    I honestly don't have a clue as to why you choose to attack me, then expect that I am supposed to just lay down and take yours or anyones word that uses these passive aggressive tactics seriously. I thought we were having a conversation, not you jamming your opinion down my throat in a bully fashion.....Ah well.


    It was not ok for any of them to do so.
    Ok, granted. good point. but they are gone. What would you like to do dig them up and beat them publicly? or address the here and now?


    If we keep getting lost on the path of hyperpartisanship we'll only bitch when the other guy is in charge. How the Republicans howled when Clinton was in charge (for good reason), but that howling stopped when Bush was in charge even though he was doing the same if not worse things. The howling started up again when Obama got in charge. But where did that howling lead us? Nowhere better. We're still worse off. We've been blinded by the "other guy" for so long that we don't see that "our guy" is just as bad. You have to think, you have to look at the whole picture. If you don't then there's no point to even trying.

    Well, I am not much for giving up on things so easily, especially when it involves my liberty. I do however think that you are wrong about the back and forth when different parties are in power. It is true enough that some of that goes on but, if you really look closely many supported Bush on issues concerning the wars, but not in the domestic arena. TARP bailouts sparked the TEA parties for heavens sake.


    The information we are fed is full of spin, hyperbole, and entertainment.

    Yep, and multiple takes on any particular story is warranted in this day and age. Which is why I find it troubling that the President would take the time to single out outlets unfriendly to him and target them publicly.


    It's up to the viewer to disseminate all that and withdraw the information. To compare it to other information, to objectively analyze the actions of the government, to intelligently learn about the various branches and tools of government.

    Ever watch or listen to the man on the street interviews about politics? Many are so caught up in their own lives and so busy trying to make it every day they have little time, or the will to even care beyond the half hour nightly news to do what you say. Which is troubling. Hell, look around here and see how many think that Jon Stewart is a credible source.....


    We have to stop thinking of this as R v D and understand that it is The People, our freedom, our liberty, our rights v the Government.

    AMEN BRO!!! You're singin' my tune! Think that Senator from Utah was a fluke? Just keep watchin'


    That is a serious responsibility and duty. Now enough of this hyperpartisan BS.
    Begin with name calling, end with name calling....You need some people skills bro.


    j-mac
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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    The president can go about whining as much as he wants about the oversaturation of technology/information/ideas, but as soon as he attempts to stop access to these things- that's when the feces hits the AC.

    It's true that there's a whole heck of a lot of ideas out there which is why SEO and the like are becoming new careers, now that everyone has a sounding board it's up to us to decide who is the idiot and who isn't so essentially, in order to survive people will need to learn to think for themselves and if the president is afraid of a little competition then that is scary

  4. #184
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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    It is interesting to see so many people attach a conspiratorial attitude towards this speech, when it is essentially what many people are saying on their own.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What is 'elitist' about saying that technology has actually made people more prone to misinformation? This has been true since the day mass print was perfected. Can anybody name a single medium of conveying information that hasn't been used to bombard people with misinformation? Nothing to do with wanting to control a medium. Just a social commentary. The internet is the perfect example of just what a society can do with a global medium for transferring information. 90% of the internet is made up of porn and the other 10% is used for miscellaneous crap. More people are misinformed because it is so easy to simply go online and type what you want to hear instead of the truth.

    You will find websites, video games, movies online validating misinformation. All the Alex Jones videos seem to be online. All filled with massive lies about governments. You have David Ike online conducting chat sessions with thousands and putting out articles about the vaccines the evil lizard race is creating to control us all. These are just examples of the amount of misinformation there is on the internet.

    Obama is absolutely right, technology has made humanity stupid. We're lazy. We have no desire to learn about the past from people who've studied it. We'd rather hear it from some kid on YouTube. Critical thought is dying one brain cell at a time.
    The elitism is in equating the increased openness of information, both true and untrue, with the spread of untrue information overtaking the spread of true information. Besides requiring a view of people in general as too stupid to ever discern truth from lies in the first place, it can only conclude that information must be controlled if humanity is to survive. Which is pretty much the definition of elitism.

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by Dav View Post
    The elitism is in equating the increased openness of information, both true and untrue, with the spread of untrue information overtaking the spread of true information. Besides requiring a view of people in general as too stupid to ever discern truth from lies in the first place, it can only conclude that information must be controlled if humanity is to survive. Which is pretty much the definition of elitism.
    Where did Obama say information needed to be 'controlled'? Is that what you think he's saying?

    Here are the quotes from the article:

    "You're coming of age in a 24/7 media environment that bombards us with all kinds of content and exposes us to all kinds of arguments, some of which don't always rank all that high on the truth meter,"

    "With iPods and iPads and Xboxes and PlayStations, -- none of which I know how to work -- information becomes a distraction, a diversion, a form of entertainment, rather than a tool of empowerment, rather than the means of emancipation,"

    "some of the craziest claims can quickly claim traction," in the clamor of certain blogs and talk radio outlets.

    "All of this is not only putting new pressures on you, it is putting new pressures on our country and on our democracy."

    "We can't stop these changes... but we can adapt to them,"

    "Education... can fortify you, as it did earlier generations, to meet the tests of your own time,"


    "A black woman, in 1929, refusing to be denied her dream of a college education,"

    "Refusing to be denied her rights, refusing to be denied her dignity, refusing to be denied... her piece of America's promise."

    "What Jefferson recognized... that in the long run, their improbable experiment -- called America -- wouldn't work if its citizens were uninformed, if its citizens were apathetic, if its citizens checked out, and left democracy to those who didn't have the best interests of all the people at heart.

    "It could only work if each of us stayed informed and engaged, if we held our government accountable, if we fulfilled the obligations of citizenship."
    I welcome you to point out where he 'concludes' in any way that information needs to be controlled. If anything he asks the people using the information to use critical thinking when looking through the information. Instead of listening to the stories they've heard from their uncles or cousins or whatever other horses they happen to have their ears next to. Sorry Lil'Dave. Your conclusion and accusations of elitism fail to be substantiated by the evidence.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Where did Obama say information needed to be 'controlled'? Is that what you think he's saying?

    Here are the quotes from the article:



    I welcome you to point out where he 'concludes' in any way that information needs to be controlled. If anything he asks the people using the information to use critical thinking when looking through the information. Instead of listening to the stories they've heard from their uncles or cousins or whatever other horses they happen to have their ears next to. Sorry Lil'Dave. Your conclusion and accusations of elitism fail to be substantiated by the evidence.
    I never said that anyone concluded anything. I only said that such a position can only conclude this, i.e., it is the logical conclusion of that position. Most people stop just short of admitting this, and thus they don't conclude such a thing, but it's true: if untruth becomes dominant over truth in an uncontrolled, open information environment, the only hope for society is for access to information to be controlled.

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I honestly don't have a clue as to why you choose to attack me, then expect that I am supposed to just lay down and take yours or anyones word that uses these passive aggressive tactics seriously. I thought we were having a conversation, not you jamming your opinion down my throat in a bully fashion.....Ah well.
    It's not an attack. I seriously laid it out all very clear like. I don't see how there could be confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, granted. good point. but they are gone. What would you like to do dig them up and beat them publicly? or address the here and now?
    Yes and yes. I think it is high time we start holding all our elected officials to the standards of the office and to the law of the land. We can't use the treason of the past to excuse the treason of the present and we should recognize that which happened in the past as inexcusable behavior by the individuals whom wield our power and sovereignty.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Well, I am not much for giving up on things so easily, especially when it involves my liberty. I do however think that you are wrong about the back and forth when different parties are in power. It is true enough that some of that goes on but, if you really look closely many supported Bush on issues concerning the wars, but not in the domestic arena. TARP bailouts sparked the TEA parties for heavens sake.
    I can't see anything but the back and forth. I think out system has degraded significantly to the point that both parties know they'll never fully be thrown out of power. The only thing one party has to do is bitch about the other party. They will teeter-totter back into power eventually and the roles will reverse. Meanwhile, no matter who is in charge, the power, strength, and scope of the government continually expands.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yep, and multiple takes on any particular story is warranted in this day and age. Which is why I find it troubling that the President would take the time to single out outlets unfriendly to him and target them publicly.
    I think ultimately Obama has a valid point on this one. But we shouldn't pretend this is only perpetrated by one side of the isle.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ever watch or listen to the man on the street interviews about politics? Many are so caught up in their own lives and so busy trying to make it every day they have little time, or the will to even care beyond the half hour nightly news to do what you say. Which is troubling. Hell, look around here and see how many think that Jon Stewart is a credible source.....
    The average person is caught up in their life. It's not to be unexpected. But if you want to know where I lay the ultimate blame both for the condition of the government and the press, then we shall look no further than the mirror. It's ultimately our fault for becoming lazy and detached. Yes our normal lives our important, but so are our freedom and liberty. For that, we must always remain vigilant, informed, and participating.

    As for Jon Stewart, I say that sadly he is one of the best sources for political commentary. It's not to say that with him there isn't spin or an ideal that he comes from. But of the "media" (and I know the Daily Show is a comedy, but for sake of argument...), Jon Stewart has the most fair assessments and allows for some level of dialog to occur. It's sad that it's one of the better sources of actual political commentary and opinion; it just shows the state of our actual news media.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    AMEN BRO!!! You're singin' my tune! Think that Senator from Utah was a fluke? Just keep watchin'
    I'll believe it when I see it

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Begin with name calling, end with name calling....You need some people skills bro.
    It's not name calling. The partisan BS has to stop. That's a statement of fact. It's enough, we don't need to make our jobs any tougher by supporting and proliferating this all out partisan hackery. Enough is enough.
    Last edited by Ikari; 05-10-10 at 06:11 PM.
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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I think there is a good point to the article and what Obama is saying. With all the information out there, and with some much commentary and editorial being misrepresented as information, what I get that he is saying is that people have to be very discerning with what they are hearing and need to be evaluators. In this day and age, many expect news and information to be handed to us, forgetting that the source of where that information is coming has a huge impact on what that information actually means.

    I think it is important for us to recognize that what the President says, in this situation, holds value. Too much information is just info-tainment.
    But you see, this is the irony of a statement like this coming from a guy like Obama.

    This man used the same media he is chastizing, to paint a false picture of himself in a political campaign. So now, that the media has turned a little on him, we all have to be careful about what we listen to. : Yeah, whatever Obama. How is WhiteHouse.gov doing these days? Still throwing out false info or is it even up and running anymore?
    Last edited by TheHat; 05-10-10 at 06:40 PM.

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by TheHat View Post
    But you see, this is the irony of a statement like this coming from a guy like Obama.

    This man used the same media he is chastizing, to paint a false picture of himself in a political campaign. So now, that the media has turned a little on him, we all have to be careful about what we listen to. : Yeah, whatever Obama. How is WhiteHouse.gov doing these days? Still throwing out false info or is it even up and running anymore?
    You are not listening. It's irrelevant as to whether or not the media has turned on him or not. His point is valid. A critical analysis of information is key when there is so much information out there.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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