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Thread: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    now, THERE's a message the kids want and need to hear

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Nobody is arguing against the free market of ideas. What is being suggested here is that we aren't keeping up with providing our kids and ourselves with the tools to NAVIGATE that free market of ideas.

    Tools that help to identify the bias of a particular source. Tools that help users of information sort through the variety that is out there and figure out what information is true, and what is false.
    Don't know what tools you are talking about, but such tools already exist - they are the new media that Obama and Ikari just railed against.

    If someone like Glenn Beck had falsified quotes thirty years ago, the chances are that he would have gotten away with it. Whereas today, all it takes is one person in a million to plunge into the abundance of information and find it out. If this person has a point, then others will take notice and the information will spread. Will it convince Beck's die-hard supporters? Probably not, but if it really is a good point, there's a good chance it'll dissuade more moderate potential listeners from flocking to him.


    There is a difference between, for instance, a book promoted on the Glenn Beck show that FALSIFIES QUOTES from the founding fathers to justify theocracy, and scholarship that has been peer-reviewed and held up to academic scrutiny.
    There isn't, in the sense that neither should be accepted as word of God. Nothing should be, and everything should be taken with a hint of skepticism, peer reviewed or not.


    The fact is that both sides present the "facts" with their own spin. It's hard to find factual information on many topics.
    This has always been true. Now there is open availability of spin from all sides, though, the one thing that didn't exist before. It's also a lot less hard to find factual information on any topic than before, so I'm not really sure how new media supposedly exacerbates this problem when in fact it minimizes it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Disinformation is very easy to spread when you hide it in emotionalized rhetoric and nationalism. People can choose whatever they want, but I told you exactly what needs to happen if your goal is to preserve the Republic. Only a fool would suggest that giving one's self up to the misinformation out there, to allow one to be pulled and pushed along the tides of hyperpartisan "news" would be a good thing. It's not a good thing.
    Of course not. Which is why the new media is such a great thing. Rather than creating one "tide" that is the mainstream media, it spreads information out into something that anyone can access. It also spreads disinformation out into something that anyone can access. But frankly, seeing the latter rather than the former is an inherently elitist view, since it assumes that most people will take untruth over truth when both are readily available - meaning that if an educated society is to exist, information can't be freely available. But many people stop just short of realizing that conclusion to their views.

    I don't expect that everyone has the same political opinion as I do. In fact, it would be a little bothersome, I couldn't rant if everyone agreed with me. However, there is a difference in saying that people can have a different opinion and having an opinion based almost entirely off of hyperbole, spin, emotionalized rhetoric, and hyperpartisan hackery. If people read books and educated themselves and had a different opinion than me, fine. So long as it's an educated, researched opinion, I feel well better than that. It's when these opinions are born of ignorance that I start to worry. Smart people disagreeing is one thing. Misinformed people running on emotional knee jerk reactions are completely different.
    And yet, you said that this is to "preserve the Republic". But if everyone's opinions stay the same and everyone votes the same way and basically nothing changes, what will have been preserved?


    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Do you ever encounter leftist posters on here who have absorbed their opinions wholesale from the Daily Kos and/or Democratic Underground? Or rightist posters on here who regularly cite the Free Republic without any corroborating evidence?

    That's what we're talking about here.
    The Daily Kos and Free Republic are no different than Newsweek or the Scientific American. Rush Limbargh and Rachel Maddow are no different from Walter Lippmann. They are all filters for information; information is almost never raw. The difference is that now we can all choose our filters, and thus the views of the information seeker come before the filter. Do you really think that those who read Free Republic or Democratic Underground would think or view things any differently if they didn't read those? No, because they could only find those sites in the first place by looking around at all the different filters. If they choose that filter to be the best, it says more about the reader than about what they are reading. It'll only appeal to a larger audience if it actually has good points. And it doesn't appeal to a larger audience, because most people don't read either of those.

  3. #173
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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Well Tex got Temp Suspended in this thread, and I was afraid he'd gone and done something dumb. My apologies to Tex when he returns for jumping the gun.

    Just... folks have a history of doing that round here.
    Tex and I may not get along, but he's not an idiotic, impulsive teenager who has no concept of boundaries. I couldn't imagine him doing anything remotely like that.

    Besides... Bron's just mad because I told him that each time he creates a sock, I'm going to humiliate him, publicly. And he makes it so easy.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 05-10-10 at 04:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    It's funny how the centrists, libertarians, and moderates seem to grok this, but the hardcore conservative koolaid drinkers have their panties in a wad.
    This is an excellent point. From what I see in this thread, it is the extremists... in this case the conservatives, who are doing nothing but spinning the issue in order to fit their partisan hatred and demonization. This comment, for example, demonstrates this perfectly:

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The term "Critical Thinking" has often been used to denigrate those not in agreement with liberal agenda.


    j-mac
    No, it's about critical thinking. Only someone who's sole focus is attacking the "other" side, without being able to look at the situation critically would comment like this. The entire issue is around being able to discern information from spin. It's not about Obama... but some folks MAKE it about Obama because he said it. We are innudated with information, and just sucking it up isn't enough anymore. One has to be able to use their critical thinking abilities to be able to differentiate what is information and what is propaganda... and that often means examining different sources with different leans. Any one who indicates that using critical thinking is a partisam agenda is using their own partisan agenda to denigrate crtical thinking.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    So is Obama going to post this on his Facebook page, or is he just going to text it from his beloved Blackberry?

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    I think Obama made some good points there.

    IMO, never before has humanity had such access to information on such a massive scale as they have today, information is instant... and never before have people been as ignorant as they are today. People today who refuse to see facts and truth over hysteria and lies, are truly ignorant beyond belief.

    Ignorance is bliss, so be happy with it if it's your choice.

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    So is Obama going to post this on his Facebook page, or is he just going to text it from his beloved Blackberry?
    WOW, thanks for adding something helpful to the conversation.

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    WOW, thanks for adding something helpful to the conversation.
    Just pointing out the typical hypocrisy. Obama is increasingly frustrated in his inability to CONTROL the message. It was so much easier to do so in Chicago.

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This is an excellent point. From what I see in this thread, it is the extremists... in this case the conservatives, who are doing nothing but spinning the issue in order to fit their partisan hatred and demonization.
    Everyone can be tempted into smugness and intellectual superiority. When Democrats become more popular, Republicans become tempted to blame the media for making people stupid (i.e. disagreeing with them). When Republicans become more popular, Democrats become more tempted to blame the media for making people stupid (i.e. disagree with them). Libertarians and other fringe ideologies can be in this state perpetually.

    Conservatives may disagree with Obama now - IMO, rightfully - but as soon as the Democrats become popular, all the talk about modern distractions and partisan pundits shaping opinion will start coming from them. Though even then some liberals might be inclined to agree, since their ideology is more elitist to begin with.

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    Re: Obama bemoans 'diversions' of IPod, Xbox era

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Just pointing out the typical hypocrisy. Obama is increasingly frustrated in his inability to CONTROL the message. It was so much easier to do so in Chicago.
    That's not what he's saying at all. By his logic, if what you believe to be true, than you should agree with him...

    You see, if you believe Obama is a marxist, then what he's saying is, you gotta be able to sift through all the information and find the truth, and if that's what you did to find the truth on rightwingnutjobs.blogsspot.commie than you actually followed his advice...

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