Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 678
Results 71 to 80 of 80

Thread: KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks

  1. #71
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,994

    Re: KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Even in your mind the possibility lurks, however so slight. Therefore in the mind of a 'leftie' that crack would tend to be ever so widened, so that the next natural step - from either side - would be the finger pointing.
    There's no real way to "prove" that it wasn't cronyism. Someone could detail every single solitary reason why Halliburton was the only option and the simple presense of Cheney would still cause claims of Cronyism. As such, yeah...I'm never going to sit here and say "Without a doubt, without question, cronyism had NOTHING to do with it". I won't say it, because I can't say it, because its making a factual statement without any real factual information.

    Likewise, those saying it was DEFINITELY cronyism are doing the exact same thing but simply on the flip side of the coin. The only "proof" they seemingly have that this no-bid contract to Halliburton was different than any other contract given to Halliburton in a similar way is that Cheney was connected to the company in the past...which isn't actually "proof" of anything really.

    Liberals who take the possability that cronyism may or may not have had some role in it and expand that crack to grand canyon sized proportions of absolute fact and singularity are no more correct than those on the right that act as if its one long piece of solid ground. The finger pointing, on both sides, based on assumptions presented as facts is foolishness.

    If it hadn't been Halliburton, but instead a small company who in no way shape or form fit the bill in regards to being legitimately able to fulfill the criteria for a no-bid contract and had no history working with the government in such a capacity (and is never again used after it)...than yeah, I'd be much more apt to cry foul, scream of cronyism, and think something fishy happened. Then it would definitely look like someone just fulfilling their interest.

    That just wasn't the case though.

  2. #72
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,053

    Re: KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris
    Ya I gotcha so even though Cheney had absolutely 0 financial stake in the company he decided to award them a no-bid contract out of the kindness of his heart.
    No. It is out of a verifiable relationship which spanned nearly 20 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    Stay on topic....this isnt about Rumsfeld.

    Its about Haliburton getting no bid contracts under both administrations, showing your claims of cronyism to be......

    FAIL
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    And gee what a shocker the government is still offering no bid contracts to them under a Democrat controlled government
    Oh I get it... it's the two stooges and the trailer park rent-a-cop. Halliburton doesn't own KBR.

    Formation of KBR, Inc.

    Halliburton announced on April 5, 2007, that it had finally broken ties with KBR, which has been its contracting, engineering and construction unit as a part of the company for 44 years.[10] The move was prefaced by a statement registered with the United States Securities and Exchange Commission on April 15, 2006, stating that Halliburton planned to sell up to 20 percent of its KBR stock on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE). On November 16, 2006, KBR shares were offered for the public in an Initial Public Offering with shares priced at $17. The shares closed up more than 22 percent to $20.75 a share on the first trading day.[11]

    On May 7, 2008, the company announced that it would acquire Birmingham, Alabama-based engineering and construction firm BE&K for $550 million. BE&K plans to remain headquartered in Birmingham.[12]
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  3. #73
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,053

    Re: KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    There is nothing more lazy than quoting separate points into one quote then dismissing it all.
    If they're based on the same strawman? Then no. It's not lazy. Just efficient.

    You made a claim about the amount of money. He argued that point and gave you the right number. You ducked it. That isn't a strawman.
    A 3 million dollar difference in a 39 million dollar paycheck.

    You then ducked the fact that the severance package was something built into his contract. That again isn't a strawman.

    If you are going to debate Hatuey, at least have the courtesy to address all points and not lump them together in a false claim of "strawman"

    Most people who try to categorize an argument then declare victory are the ones loosing the argument.
    Good lawd, are you paid to troll? Do you know what a strawman is? It is when you concoct an argument that nobody has made. Example, his severance package, the fact that it 36 and not 39 million dollars is irrelevant at the end of the day. My argument is that Cheney's relationship with Halliburton helped it secure a no-bid contract. If you got evidence proving the opposite, I welcome it. PS: KBR? NOT Halliburton.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-14-10 at 12:05 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #74
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,994

    Re: KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Cheney wasn't tied to Halliburton. He was the CEO of the damned thing. It's like saying 'Bill Gates has a stake in Microsoft'. While correct, it is an understatement of what he actually did and was within the company. If you're going to rant about 'intellectual dishonesty' try avoiding it yourself.
    Yes, he WAS the CEO of the thing. He wasn't any longer. That doesn't in any way somehow make my statement that he was previously tied to the company any less false? He was previously tied to the company, by being their CEO. Tied is the correct word, because while he WAS CEO he was no longer directly involved with the company so it was simply his past ties. My point still stands, exactly as I said it. Cheney being tied to the company in the past, having been its CEO, does not in any way "prove" that cronyism was THE reason they recieved the contract.

    This lie that any other company other that Halliburton couldn't have gotten the job is quite simply a lie which has been proven over and over again.
    Actually, it is a matter that has been routinely disputed and debated since the time with experts weighing in on both sides. Stop proclaiming opinion or arguments as if they're facts. A legitimate argument could be made that Halliburton fit the requirements that are in place to recieve a no-bid contract and the best and only bet in regards to scope, experience, and necessary time to do it. While an argument can be made against that, especially in hindsight, it is not an absolutely absurd notion. Regardless, even if they were not the only company that could've appleid to the situation, that still does not "prove" cronyism as they have prior to it and since gotten No-Bid contracts where an equally strong argument agains them being the "only" company able to do it can be made.

    If anything this simply reaffirms the claim.
    Um, no it doesn't. Your claim:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If I remember correctly, the objections against Haliburton were not because it got a no-bid contract. It was because of the obvious cronyism involved in the fact that it got the contract.
    It doens't reaffirm your claim, it shows your memory that led to your claim to be faulty. Yes, Cronyism was definitely a complaint people had. However, so was the fact it was a no-bid contract. If you'll actually notice, its this claim...made by you....that led to my initial comment. It was not a comment stating that cronyism played no part, but one countering your point that it was in no way No-Bid contracts, but Cronyism, that caused the outcry of the left against the matter.

    Anybody who claims cronyism did not play a part in this is simply refusing to see the truth.
    Well, glad we can agree Hautey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Did Cronyism play into it? Quite possibly
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Is it likely that cronyism played into it? Quite possibly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    As such, yeah...I'm never going to sit here and say "Without a doubt, without question, cronyism had NOTHING to do with it".
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Liberals who take the possability that cronyism may or may not have had some role in it and expand that crack to grand canyon sized proportions of absolute fact and singularity are no more correct than those on the right that act as if its one long piece of solid ground. The finger pointing, on both sides, based on assumptions presented as facts is foolishness.
    Its foolish to think that Cronyism absolutely had no chance of being a part of the choice.

    However its also absolutely foolish to act like your assumptions are absolute indisputable facts when they're not, they're your opinion based on a few loose facts that you then meld into your opinion and shift to your world view in hopes of presenting your reality as if its absolute gospel truth.

    Yet here, 2 years after Bush is gone...Cheney is gone....Obama is here, we see a no-bid contract given to KBR.

    I guess that must "prove" Obama has some KBR crony's too, how else could they possibly have recieved a no-bid contract.

  5. #75
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,323

    Re: KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by BWG View Post
    Haliburton was incorporated in the U.S. Schlumberger was incorporated in Curaçao of the Netherlands Antilles, not France.

    BTW, doesn't it make you chest swell with patriotic pride that Haliburton took all that American taxpayer money to Dubai?


    Tell me, which of these is a Haliburton/KBR subsidiary?

    Tamimi Global
    ESS
    Eagle Global Logistics
    Event Source
    Prime Projects International (PPI)

    The correct answer is none of the above. They are just a few companies, domestic and foreign, sub-contracted by Haliburton/KBR to provide various services under the contract Haliburton received from the government. Any of the companies that have previously been mentioned could have done the same thing. Haliburton wasn't in the food service business, they weren't in the fuel transportation business. They had expertise in a lot of the work under the contract, , as did a a few others. A lot of the work under the contract they had little or no expertise in, so they sub-contracted, just like any of the other companies would be able to do.

    If one company is the only source for that type of work why do Parsons, Fluor, Washington Group International, Shaw Group/Shaw Engineering and Infrastructure, Bechtel, Perini, et.al. have billion dollar contracts in Iraq and Afghanistan



    Even in your mind the possibility lurks, however so slight. Therefore in the mind of a 'leftie' that crack would tend to be ever so widened, so that the next natural step - from either side - would be the finger pointing.


    Money doesn't necessarily have to change hands in return for a 'favor'.
    Is there any reason why you decided to take my comment and make something more of it than it was?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  6. #76
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 05:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    No. It is out of a verifiable relationship which spanned nearly 20 years.

    Yes even though no-bid contracts with Halliburton occurred both before and after Cheney and even though Cheney had absolutely no financial stake whatsoever in Halliburton and even though there was no other company on the planet that could perform the job which Halliburton was charged with doing, Cheney for some reason apparently out of the kindness of his heart decided to pull strings to get them the contract. Do you have any idea how delusional you sound?

  7. #77
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 05:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post

    A 3 million dollar difference in a 39 million dollar paycheck.
    It was deferred salary which he had already earned, and the majority of it came in the form of stock options and once again the profits from his stocks go to charity! Cheney doesn't make a dime more or less no matter how well or poorly Halliburton does, are you saying there is something nefarious about Cheney getting money that he was owed? If anything Cheney went above and beyond what he needed to do by entering the voluntary yet binding contract insuring the proceeds from his stock profits would go to charity.

  8. #78
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,725

    Re: KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    In all honesty I'm not seeing any outrage from "Bushneviks" over the awarding of the no bid contract. Even the poster you quoted was not complaining honestly that Obama shouldn't have given out no bid contracts becuase no bid contracts are bad.

    They are showing outrage because Obama and those on the left for years now have been bitching about no bid contracts and halliburton, only to then turn around when they're in office and give a no bid contract to essentially halliburton. They "outrage" is over the hypocrisy of it all. They couldn't have expressed similar outrage at Bush over the no-bid/halliburton thing because the situation was not in any way the same, nor was the reason people were "outraged" the same.

    Think you're a bit off base on that one dana.





    I agree...... It shouldn't be a right winger starting this thread.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  9. #79
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks

    so the party of pelosi is prepared to ASSASSINATE united states citizens abroad, NOT on a battlefield, with ZERO due process and based only on intelligence reports

    mutallab who's not an american gets mirandized while new mexicans are murdered in yemen

    you can't eavesdrop on em without a warrant, but a drone is definitely doable

    typically incoherent and impromptu policy

    the times has trouble with it, naturally

    U.S. Approval of Killing of Cleric Causes Unease - NYTimes.com

  10. #80
    Student
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-17-12 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    246

    Re: KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks

    Seriously, you all need to look up the LOGCAP program. [1]

    Haliburton/KBR won the LOGCAP III award via competitive bid, the oil-well fire "no-bid" contract was a reasonable extension of that contract. Just like extending (K)BRs LOGCAP I contract under Clinton in Bosnia was a reasonable extension. [2]

    In extending the (K)BR contract (even though DynaCorp won the LOGCAP II award) "According to a later GAO study, the Army made the choice because 1) Brown & Root had already acquired extensive knowledge of how to work in the area; 2) the company "had demonstrated the ability to support the operation"; and 3) changing contractors would have been costly." [2]

    Hmm, that sounds an awful lot like, "“Odierno said, ‘I’ve got three million pieces of equipment I’ve got to get out of Iraq, I’ve got 100 or so bases to close, I’ve got to move 80,000-plus people out of here and you want me to change horses in the middle of the stream?’” Casey recounted." from the OP source. Regarding the latest KBR "no-bid" contract.[3]

    This is such a non-issue, in BOTH instances it's not even funny.

    LOGCAP IV award has been broken up across 3 companies (KBR was one once again), as a result of all the complaining. [4]

    J

    [1] [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LOGCAP]LOGCAP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    [2] The Bush/Iraq Scandal That Wasn't - Byron York - National Review Online
    [3] KBR to Get No-Bid Army Work as U.S. Alleges Kickbacks (Update1) - BusinessWeek
    [4] Army Splits Award Among 3 Firms - washingtonpost.com

Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 678

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •