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Thread: Pentagon asking Congress to hold back on generous increases in troop pay

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    Re: Pentagon asking Congress to hold back on generous increases in troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    No they shouldn't. They deserve every penny they make. Honestly they need to cut funding to advertisement for the army and all these sign on bonuses. As a senior in high school I got letters almost weekly from each branch of the military telling me how sweet it would be to join. The propagate the minds of 17 year old high school seniors into signing several years of their lives away, recruiters don't give you the full story, and it's an expensive process to advertise and bribe teenagers to enlist in the armed forces. Let someone who wants to enlist enlist, but it costs the country money to run commercials and send letters lying to immature teenagers about enlisting.

    It doesn't make a damn bit of sense for a dim-witted trough-head secretary to make 60 g's a year, plus a rediculous bennies package, while a platoon sgt., who is responsible for the lives of 30 soldiers makes 25 grand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pentagon asking Congress to hold back on generous increases in troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It doesn't make a damn bit of sense for a dim-witted trough-head secretary to make 60 g's a year, plus a rediculous bennies package, while a platoon sgt., who is responsible for the lives of 30 soldiers makes 25 grand.
    That's just your opinion. I'm sure not all secretaries are dim wits that make 60 grand per year. The military gives ridiculous benefit packages. I think the soldiers shouldn't have pay cuts and I do believe they deserve raises, however I think advertising costs too much.

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    Re: Pentagon asking Congress to hold back on generous increases in troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Military families until recently frequently depended on food stamps to get by. Considering the job they do, and the risk involved, and the hours a day/week/year put into that job, and the amount of travel and disruption to family and life, no, they really do not make enough.
    Thanks for the rational reply (and thanks to jamesrage for posting some salary info). People were getting a bit defensive when I was just asking a question.

    What I'm seeing is that people think entitlement programs should be cut in order to give more money to military families, when that in of itself is a kind of entitlement. I agree that soldiers have high risk jobs, but they're still jobs that they volunteered for just like anyone else.

    Whenever there are debates on welfare and entitlement programs, the issue of people's choices in life always comes up. Did soldiers not choose that way of life also? I realize U.S. has a culture of venerating its soldiers and placing duty on a sort of pedestal, but from a fiscal point of view I don't think soldiers deserve outrageous amounts of money. They knew the risks and demands when they signed up.

    If we're talking about livable wages here, then that I can agree with. All soldiers should make enough to survive on, and if they're not then raises need to be demanded; but just because they're doing a job that garners patriotic favoritism does not mean they deserve over-the-top salaries.
    Last edited by Orion; 05-08-10 at 06:27 PM.

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    Re: Pentagon asking Congress to hold back on generous increases in troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It's like market fraud if you ask me. They advertise the military as a fun structured place where you get to see the world and make good money with wonderful benefits when you leave... This isn't the case, but once you sign on you can't change your mind.

    Even if you can drink in front of an adult, you still don't need consenting parents to sign on as a 17 year old.
    If you believe the military is a "fun structured place where you get to see the world", then you (or whoever) obviously deserves to get suckered into joining the military. I don't believe Red Bull gives me wings from those commercials, so I'm not gonna get mad when some idiot drinks some and jumps off a building expecting to fly away.

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    Re: Pentagon asking Congress to hold back on generous increases in troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    If you believe the military is a "fun structured place where you get to see the world", then you (or whoever) obviously deserves to get suckered into joining the military. I don't believe Red Bull gives me wings from those commercials, so I'm not gonna get mad when some idiot drinks some and jumps off a building expecting to fly away.
    I don't believe the army is a fun structures place. I did get some cards from the Navy though telling me that if I enlist I would get to travel the world and learn the self discipline skills required to make it in life. A lot of the adds will say "do something with your life" as if not joining the military means your life is less important or worthless. Recruiters and adds don't give you the full truth, they spin the truth to try and capture teenagers.

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    Re: Pentagon asking Congress to hold back on generous increases in troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I still don't think it's right. I also don't think it's right that they are allowed to sugar coat the military and lie to teenagers. You can't smoke until you're 18, you can drink or own a handgun until you are 21. But at the age of 17 you can pre-sign up to join the armed forces and ship out when you are 18. I really don't like how they bait teenagers.
    Dishonest recruiters are a whole separate issue. When I was recruited, I got a fairly honest assessment from my recruiter, including him saying "I never worked aviation, so not real sure", and "I could never work on the flight deck, place would scare me ****less".

    As far as recruiting 17 year olds, you are comparing apples to oranges. Companies can recruit 17 year olds to come work for them when they graduate(though it is done rarely), and that is basically what this is, an employer recruiting 17 your olds to come work for them.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Pentagon asking Congress to hold back on generous increases in troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How do you define a, "decent wage", for risking your life to serve your country?
    The top 10 most dangerous jobs in the United States:
    1) Fishermen
    2) Pilots
    3) Timber cutter
    4) Structural metal workers
    5) Waste collectors
    6) Farmers and ranchers
    7) Power-line workers
    8) Miners
    9) Roofers
    10) Truck drivers
    Total deaths per year: 5,840
    Source: [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workplace_safety]Workplace safety - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


    Total American deaths in the entire War on Terror: 5,457
    Source: [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_casualties_of_war]United States casualties of war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]


    More people die in the top 10 most dangerous jobs per year than soldiers who have died in the entire war, and a lot of them don't make salaries that are so great either. Note that soldiers didn't even make the list. Soldiers are, statistically, also the most likely to make it to retirement and receive benefit packages, versus the above top 10.

    Maybe the government should be giving more entitlement funds to the families in the top 10? After all, what price can you place on serving in such a dangerous duty? And barely anyone talks about them.

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    Re: Pentagon asking Congress to hold back on generous increases in troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It's like market fraud if you ask me. They advertise the military as a fun structured place where you get to see the world and make good money with wonderful benefits when you leave... This isn't the case, but once you sign on you can't change your mind.

    Even if you can drink in front of an adult, you still don't need consenting parents to sign on as a 17 year old.
    Advertisements never tell the whole story. However, all those things are benefits of joining the military. There will be fun times. It is structured. You will see the world. You can, depending on situations, make decent money(I was single, liked in barracks, ate at base galley, almost all my income was disposable). GI bill alone is a wonderful benefit upon leaving, and if you retire, it truly is awesome benefits. It's not the whole story, but it is accurate.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Pentagon asking Congress to hold back on generous increases in troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Thanks for the rational reply (and thanks to jamesrage for posting some salary info). People were getting a bit defensive when I was just asking a question.

    What I'm seeing is that people think entitlement programs should be cut in order to give more money to military families, when that in of itself is a kind of entitlement. I agree that soldiers have high risk jobs, but they're still jobs that they volunteered for just like anyone else.

    Whenever there are debates on welfare and entitlement programs, the issue of people's choices in life always comes up. Did soldiers not choose that way of life also? I realize U.S. has a culture of venerating its soldiers and placing duty on a sort of pedestal, but from a fiscal point of view I don't think soldiers deserve outrageous amounts of money. They knew the risks and demands when they signed up.

    If we're talking about livable wages here, then that I can agree with. All soldiers should make enough to survive on, and if they're not then raises need to be demanded; but just because they're doing a job that garners patriotic favoritism does not mean they deserve over-the-top salaries.
    Choices go both ways. Yes, people who enlist make a lifestyle choice. However, we as a society make a choice as to how we want to reward those who do. I think it is important to reward well those who choose to serve our society.

    Also, I believe part of the reason for the increases recently in pay was in reaction to recruiting and retention issues the military was handling. If we do not pay enough to get top quality people to enlist, and re-enlist, then the real cost is much higher, measured in terms of readiness and effectiveness of the military.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Pentagon asking Congress to hold back on generous increases in troop pay

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The top 10 most dangerous jobs in the United States:
    1) Fishermen
    2) Pilots
    3) Timber cutter
    4) Structural metal workers
    5) Waste collectors
    6) Farmers and ranchers
    7) Power-line workers
    8) Miners
    9) Roofers
    10) Truck drivers
    Total deaths per year: 5,840
    Source: Workplace safety - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Total American deaths in the entire War on Terror: 5,457
    Source: United States casualties of war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    More people die in the top 10 most dangerous jobs per year than soldiers who have died in the entire war, and a lot of them don't make salaries that are so great either. Note that soldiers didn't even make the list. Soldiers are, statistically, also the most likely to make it to retirement and receive benefit packages, versus the above top 10.

    Maybe the government should be giving more entitlement funds to the families in the top 10? After all, what price can you place on serving in such a dangerous duty? And barely anyone talks about them.
    How many people work in those top 10 jobs? How many people are deployed at one time in the combat zones? See the problem with that argument?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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