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Thread: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    American healthcare.. is a complete mess, It's a privatised disaster.. Someday America will realise that healthcare for profit is an exercise in idiocy.

    Total Per Capita > Health Care Funding statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

    # 1 United States: $4,631.00 per capita
    # 2 Switzerland: $3,222.00 per capita
    # 3 Germany: $2,748.00 per capita
    # 4 Iceland: $2,608.00 per capita
    # 5 Canada: $2,535.00 per capita
    # 6 Denmark: $2,420.00 per capita
    # 7 France: $2,349.00 per capita
    = 8 Belgium: $2,268.00 per capita
    = 8 Norway: $2,268.00 per capita
    # 10 Netherlands: $2,246.00 per capita

    Last edited by Gabriel; 06-25-10 at 09:36 AM.

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change


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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    I'm grasping straws when I try to understand how GDP and healthcare costs - which a lot of isn't even related to "product-purchases" but rather services - are connected.

    Why is it a better or worse thing that Portugal spends less than the US?
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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I'm grasping straws when I try to understand how GDP and healthcare costs - which a lot of isn't even related to "product-purchases" but rather services - are connected.

    Why is it a better or worse thing that Portugal spends less than the US?
    hrm.. well you complain about taxation. But healthcare for profit is costing you more then it would if the government provided the service to everyone at cost. America needs to get healthcare for profit out of your pockets.

    Seems to me though if you just want to hold onto the worst healthcare system in the world all you have to do is nothing and complain about taxation.

    EDIT: Look it is a knee-jerk response to jack threads when Americans complain about taxation and the cost of healthcare. America just needs to stop with the idiocy.
    Last edited by Gabriel; 06-25-10 at 10:06 AM.

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    American healthcare.. is a complete mess, It's a privatised disaster.. Someday America will realise that healthcare for profit is an exercise in idiocy.

    Total Per Capita > Health Care Funding statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

    # 1 United States: $4,631.00 per capita
    # 2 Switzerland: $3,222.00 per capita
    # 3 Germany: $2,748.00 per capita
    # 4 Iceland: $2,608.00 per capita
    # 5 Canada: $2,535.00 per capita
    # 6 Denmark: $2,420.00 per capita
    # 7 France: $2,349.00 per capita
    = 8 Belgium: $2,268.00 per capita
    = 8 Norway: $2,268.00 per capita
    # 10 Netherlands: $2,246.00 per capita

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    This is nothing more than advocating for cheap healthcare, not to be confused with value priced. Cheap is the key word, for all the savings UHC countries may realize the consumers suffer waiting lists, the maximum denials of critical and pain management services, later access to improved meds, and a deterioration of care quality, this is not to be confused with a value. While it's true that American citizens....not the U.S. overspends on care it is not due to the private market, rather, an overregulated one thanks to improper and overextended government interference, as well, insurance pays more because the companies can, prices reflect the difference from not only tort abuses, but overregulation, and emergency room freeloaders. But hey, keep advocating for cheap, as of right now it's not our problem in the U.S. and no one else's business.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    This is nothing more than advocating for cheap healthcare, not to be confused with value priced. Cheap is the key word, for all the savings UHC countries may realize the consumers suffer waiting lists, the maximum denials of critical and pain management services, later access to improved meds, and a deterioration of care quality, this is not to be confused with a value. While it's true that American citizens....not the U.S. overspends on care it is not due to the private market, rather, an overregulated one thanks to improper and overextended government interference, as well, insurance pays more because the companies can, prices reflect the difference from not only tort abuses, but overregulation, and emergency room freeloaders. But hey, keep advocating for cheap, as of right now it's not our problem in the U.S. and no one else's business.
    There is nothing .. not one bit of information you can use to defend American healthcare cost. It is the worst most inefficent system in the industrialized world. Save your breath and stop being so pig headed about this terrible inefficient and over priced private healthcare system. Just grow up.

    Health care in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "Health care in the United States is provided by many separate legal entities. Health care facilities are largely owned and operated by the private sector. Health insurance is primarily provided by the private sector, with the exception of programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, TRICARE, the Children's Health Insurance Program and the Veterans Health Administration.

    At least 15.3% of the population is completely uninsured,[1][2][3] and a substantial additional portion of the population (35%) is "underinsured", or not able to cover the costs of their medical needs.[4][5] More money per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any other nation in the world,[6][7] and a greater percentage of total income in the nation is spent on health care in the U.S. than in any United Nations member state except for East Timor.[7] Despite the fact that not all citizens are covered, the United States has the third highest public healthcare expenditure per capita.[8][9] A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 62% of all personal bankruptcies.[10] Since then, health costs and the numbers of uninsured and underinsured have increased.[11]

    Active debate about health care reform in the United States concerns questions of a right to health care, access, fairness, efficiency, cost, and quality. Many have argued that the system does not deliver equivalent value for the money spent. The US pays twice as much yet lags behind other wealthy nations in such measures as infant mortality and life expectancy, though the relation between these statistics to the system itself is debated. Currently, the U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than most of the world's industrialized nations.[nb 1][12] The United States life expectancy lags 42nd in the world, after most rich nations, lagging last of the G5 (Japan, France, Germany, UK, USA) and just after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th).[13][14][15]

    The USA's life expectancy is ranked 50th in the world after the European Union (40th).[16][17] The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[18][19] The Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among similar countries,[20] and notes U.S. care costs the most by far.[21]

    According to the Institute of Medicine of the United States National Academies, the United States is the "only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not ensure that all citizens have coverage" (i.e. some kind of insurance).[22][23] The same Institute of Medicine report notes that "Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States."[22] while a 2009 Harvard study published in the American Journal of Public Health found a much higher figure of more than 44,800 excess deaths annually in the United States due to Americans lacking health insurance.[24][25] More broadly, the total number of people in the United States, whether insured or uninsured, who die because of lack of medical care was estimated in a 1997 analysis to be nearly 100,000 per year.[26]
    "

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    This whole thing is about running private health insurance out of business forever. No doubt Auto and life insurances will be next.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    American healthcare.. is a complete mess, It's a privatised disaster.. Someday America will realise that healthcare for profit is an exercise in idiocy.

    Total Per Capita > Health Care Funding statistics - countries compared - NationMaster

    # 1 United States: $4,631.00 per capita
    # 2 Switzerland: $3,222.00 per capita
    # 3 Germany: $2,748.00 per capita
    # 4 Iceland: $2,608.00 per capita
    # 5 Canada: $2,535.00 per capita
    # 6 Denmark: $2,420.00 per capita
    # 7 France: $2,349.00 per capita
    = 8 Belgium: $2,268.00 per capita
    = 8 Norway: $2,268.00 per capita
    # 10 Netherlands: $2,246.00 per capita

    So is assuming you get something for nothing.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  9. #79
    Educator Gabriel's Avatar
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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So is assuming you get something for nothing.
    No you get real value for the tax you pay instead of fat cats lining their pockets for profit. State provided healthcare has real value if you remove the profit motive.

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    There is nothing .. not one bit of information you can use to defend American healthcare cost. It is the worst most inefficent system in the industrialized world.
    First off, I'm an insurance professional and know the benefits/fallbacks of every major HS system, so don't try to bull**** me and stop lying to yourself.
    Save your breath and stop being so pig headed about this terrible inefficient and over priced private healthcare system. Just grow up.
    You seem to be new here, so I will give you this ONE personal attack, don't let it happen again. You are apparently either looking for your life to be subsidized or America bashing and either way you have the wrong attitude for a debate. You obviously are not aware of the situation since you are using the typical, cookie cutter information regarding health care analysis and it is wrong as always. Again, I am a professional in this subject matter and you are not.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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