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Thread: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

  1. #101
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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    If someone is paid a very good salary, isn't that their own personal profit? It does not sound like it is going into thin air.
    The highest insurance CEO salary is nothing compared to outlays. The bulk of moneys collected are going to payouts and cash on hand witholdings(which is a federal requirement not that I am complaining about that, makes sense).

    Harry and Louise were false health care prophets. Remember them? They used scare tactics to prevent health care reform. They stopped health care reform.
    This bill is not reform however, it's going to make things worse.

    Someone is not telling the truth. Hello!
    None of the big guys are, ethical agents will tell you the truth, as will ethical medical professionals, the guys and gals at the top are lying and the politicians as well. So at this moment it is what it is.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change


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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The highest insurance CEO salary is nothing compared to outlays. The bulk of moneys collected are going to payouts and cash on hand witholdings(which is a federal requirement not that I am complaining about that, makes sense).

    This bill is not reform however, it's going to make things worse.


    None of the big guys are, ethical agents will tell you the truth, as will ethical medical professionals, the guys and gals at the top are lying and the politicians as well. So at this moment it is what it is.
    I think the health care givers deserve a decent salary. Every once in a while there are a few bad apples but for the most part they are very dedicated and hard working.

  4. #104
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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Why stop there?

    Physicians per 1,000 people (most recent) by country

    I guess we should all rather live in Cuba.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalAvenger View Post
    I think the health care givers deserve a decent salary.
    Absolutely, they do a very difficult and sometimes emotionally scarring job that requires years of learning and practice and continuous education. And no one can argue it as one of the most important industries we have. One thing I'd like to see a real reform bill address is the federal limit on medical school enrollments that was passed in the earlier part of the nineteen hundreds, the artificial supply comes with an artificially elevated price and limits even more qualified individuals entrance into the market.
    Every once in a while there are a few bad apples but for the most part they are very dedicated and hard working.
    It's like that in every industry TBH, mine certainly suffers a bad reputation because when an agent goes to prison for fraud or abuse it makes the news, they never hear about the one that saved a senior on fixed income hundreds to thousands a month or protected their family's inheritance. Med. professionals sometimes have a more dramatic save such as a crisis or catastrophe, or a lawyer might get a wrongly convicted person out of prison. It's about what the public gets to see.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    What do we need health insurers for anyway? - Los Angeles Times

    Her testimony, and other statements she and other WellPoint executives have made, suggests that insurers can’t profitably manage through periods of high unemployment. They can’t price policies in a way that keeps healthy young people in the same pool as older people, producing a mockery of the very point of indemnity insurance. Despite a decade of unobstructed consolidation, which was sold to regulators as a way to control healthcare costs by creating mega-insurers like hers, her industry can’t control healthcare costs.

    Braly’s words are a reminder of the most important unasked question in the entire healthcare debate: What do we need insurance companies for, anyway?

    The only way insurers can remain profitable at all is by selling healthy people on policies that don’t offer much coverage at all, while squeezing older, less healthy people remorselessly so they either pay for most of their care out of pocket or get priced out of the insurance market completely (thus becoming a burden for taxpayers).

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Saunter back NationMaster - World Statistics, Country Comparisons with me - because I agree that it's a GREAT source for statistics - it's quite accurate, too:
    Tuberculosis treatment success rate > % of registered cases (most recent) by country

    (It's a huge site - and can be confusing - here's how to get to individual statistics on various issues - and to that particular statistics page if you get lost or booted:

    In the "Statistics" section let's look at "health" - (scroll to the bottom of this short list - and click "view all health statistics" - scroll down and then select: "Tuberculosis treatment success rate > % of registered cases (most recent) by country ")

    So, at this page we see a long list of countries/provinces - and their category (USA ranks #165)

    From the GDP list bar-graph we have quite a few countries that we can compare

    USA - # 1 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks #165 for tuberculosis success rate
    Germany - # 4 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks #148 for tuberculosis success rate
    Belgium - # 5 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 128 for tuberculosis success rate
    Portugal - # 6 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 71 for tuberculosis success rate
    Austria - # 7 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 146 for tuberculosis success rate
    Canada - # 8 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 164 for tuberculosis success rate
    Netherlands - # 9 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 79 for tuberculosis success rate
    Denmark #10 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 45 for tuberculosis success rate
    Sweden # 11 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 158 for tuberculosis success rate
    Iceland # 13 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 177 for tuberculosis success rate
    Italy # 14 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 13 for tuberculosis success rate
    Australia # 15 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 66 for tuberculosis success rate
    Norway # 16 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 38 for tuberculosis success rate
    Hungary # 19 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 173 for tuberculosis success rate
    Japan # 21 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 171 for tuberculosis success rate
    New Zealand # 22 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 154 for tuberculosis success rate
    Slovak Republic # 24 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 43 (Slovakia) for tuberculosis success rate
    Czech Republic # 26 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 120 for tuberculosis success rate
    Mexico # 27 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 85 for tuberculosis success rate
    Korea # 28 GDP<-> healthcost (which one? North or Sourth)
    North Korea: Ranks # 42 for tsr
    South Korea: Ranks # 96 for tsr
    Poland # 29 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 107 for tuberculosis success rate
    Turkey # 30 GDP<-> healthcost, Ranks # 24 for tuberculosis success rate

    If we were to just look at these in the Tuberculosis success rate and put them in order it would be:
    Italy (#13)
    Turkey (#24)
    Norway (#38)
    North Korea (#42)
    Slovak Republic (#43)
    Denmark (#45)
    Australia (#66)
    Portugal (#71)
    Netherlands (#79)
    Mexico (#85)
    South Korea (#96)
    Poland (#107)
    Czech Republic (#120)
    Belgium (#128)
    Austria (#146)
    Germany (#148)
    New Zealand (#154)
    Sweden (#158)
    Canada (#164)
    United States (#165)
    Japan (#171)
    Iceland (#177)

    This all seems like a jumble - but it really speaks volumes for how accurate examining GDP is when trying to discuss HEALTH CARE. See - healthcare doesn't center or depend on crunched numbers - you can spend a million, like we do, and get crap care - or a thousand and get stellar care. . . and vise versa. What REALLY matter is HOW it's implimented - rules and regulations - and so on, so forth - when it comes to actually efficiency of Care.

    I think these types of comparisons are the best way to accurately determine the most successful systems - it changes depending on the nature of the disease, social issue, location and so on.

    What do you have a 100% BETTER chance of being treated for Tuberculosis in Portugal or even Mexico than in the USA and Canada?

    when the Healthcare debate really got going I started to look at these numbers - and STILL don't believe that we're going to FIX any of these issues. We're just moving things around - We're not actually examining why things work better in Italy or Turkey - we're just looking at vapid #'s like GDP % and then drawing conclusions that less cost = more efficiency.
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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change


  9. #109
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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Gabriel, you are using biased sources from people who are all UHC advocates. The L.A. Times is a very left paper, the Google link had nothing but pro-UHC links, the last submission is from a position of admitted bias. If you want to be taken seriously in this debate you will need more than journalistic opinion and propoganda pieces, journalists are "know it alls" but they are not professionals, pro-UHC groups are not professionals, and 450K doctors out of millions practicing is NOT a case maker, actually quite the opposite. You have so far dismissed professional opinion, statistics you do not like, etc. without any valid reasons except that you don't agree. Summary, your position needs better support.

    *This is not an attack, rather advice.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 06-25-10 at 01:01 PM.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Gabriel, you are using biased sources from people who are all UHC advocates. The L.A. Times is a very left paper, the Google link had nothing but pro-UHC links, the last submission is from a position of admitted bias. If you want to be taken seriously in this debate you will need more than journalistic opinion and propoganda pieces, journalists are "know it alls" but they are not professionals, pro-UHC groups are not professionals, and 450K doctors out of millions practicing is NOT a case maker, actually quite the opposite. You have so far dismissed pr
    Insurance companies are not bias?

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