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Thread: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

  1. #91
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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    hrm.. well you complain about taxation. But healthcare for profit is costing you more then it would if the government provided the service to everyone at cost. America needs to get healthcare for profit out of your pockets.

    Seems to me though if you just want to hold onto the worst healthcare system in the world all you have to do is nothing and complain about taxation.

    EDIT: Look it is a knee-jerk response to jack threads when Americans complain about taxation and the cost of healthcare. America just needs to stop with the idiocy.
    The GDP in regard to healthcare is interesting - but isn't the sole key to focus on so much as the effectiveness of that cost.
    The effectiveness turns it good or bad. Our spending is *only* bad if most of it is wasteful (which it is - I do support an overhaul of the system) - but that doesn't mean that another country is automatically more efficient just because they spend *less* - so GDP tells how much a country spends, but gives no consideration to effectiveness - maybe other countries need to spend MORE in order for their system and efforts to be more effective? Maybe France spends too much and is ineffective, as well - thus could also use a restructuring? (just an example - no fact or reasoning behind it!)

    More important numbers to focus on when comparing effectiveness/cost to other countries would be to factor things separately and compare: recovery time for illnesses and diseases, success rate, cost (calculated for inflation and exchange rates) for itemized things: medications, certain treatments, supplies (everything from bandages to stethoscopes and scalpals) - as well as people's pay (receptionists, etc), factoring in the cost for water, electricity, cleaning supplies (all these things that hospitals and private practices have to cover) - and so on, so forth.

    Looking at *the* GDP as a percentage of overall healthcare costs is just *one* little thing - and it's the least important thing if you don't have all tehse other numbers to consider and compare it with and factor into it.

    (I'll do some research and write up something to explain my point . . . I'll be back in a bit)
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 06-25-10 at 11:44 AM.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    No you get real value for the tax you pay instead of fat cats lining their pockets for profit. State provided healthcare has real value if you remove the profit motive.
    Kind of like our public education system....gotcha.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  3. #93
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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Oh your job needs to be deleted out of healthcare. heh I have no interest in your opinion on this.
    First off, I work my ass off to make a better life for myself, and I make commission only. Even so I will take a lesser commission to give my clients a better product, government does not do this in medicine, they short on the consumer end and raise taxes. You attacking my livelyhood because you don't like business speaks volumes in the character column. As well, your opinion in this matter means nothing as it doesn't change the fact that you are not in the industry and using little information and relies on an offensive attack on those who disagree.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 06-25-10 at 12:11 PM.
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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    The GDP in regard to healthcare is interesting - but isn't the sole key to focus on so much as the effectiveness of that cost.
    The effectiveness turns it good or bad. Our spending is *only* bad if most of it is wasteful (which it is - I do support an overhaul of the system) - but that doesn't mean that another country is automatically more efficient just because they spend *less* - so GDP tells how much a country spends, but gives no consideration to effectiveness - maybe other countries need to spend MORE in order for their system and efforts to be more effective? Maybe France spends too much and is ineffective, as well - thus could also use a restructuring? (just an example - no fact or reasoning behind it!)
    Absolutely right, there is a difference between a good value and a cheap price tag.

    More important numbers to focus on when comparing effectiveness/cost to other countries would be to factor things separately and compare: recovery time for illnesses and diseases, success rate, cost (calculated for inflation and exchange rates) for itemized things: medications, certain treatments, supplies (everything from bandages to stethoscopes and scalpals) - as well as people's pay (receptionists, etc), factoring in the cost for water, electricity, cleaning supplies (all these things that hospitals and private practices have to cover) - and so on, so forth.
    Exactly right. There is patient satisfaction, choice of care, advancement of care, availability and timeliness of care, sanitary conditions, privacy, and other factors to consider. A private system is superior in most of these aspects
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Moderator's Warning:
    Health care law's massive, hidden tax changeThere have been enough personal attacks in this thread. Focus on the issue at hand instead of the other posters.

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Kind of like our public education system....gotcha.
    Criticize it all you like-- it deserves it-- but our public education system certainly works far better than our healthcare system does.

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Look whatever the matter with your rambling it doesn't change the fact the American system is terrible and privatised. It is terrible just google it ffs grow up and admit it is just terrible.

    Google
    Google? Really? All that provided was a bunch of blogs, a Wikipedia article, and references to the World Health Organization, all biased with suspect methodology and incomplete or inaccurate data.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    1) Minimum cash on hand requirements, 2) regulatory compliance, 3) Paying claims, 4) administrative costs, 5) reinvestment to build cash on hand, 6) salaries, 7) profit.
    If someone is paid a very good salary, isn't that their own personal profit? It does not sound like it is going into thin air.

    Harry and Louise were false health care prophets. Remember them? They used scare tactics to prevent health care reform. They stopped health care reform.

    Someone is not telling the truth. Hello!

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Criticize it all you like-- it deserves it-- but our public education system certainly works far better than our healthcare system does.
    I would love to see you prove this.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Health care law's massive, hidden tax change

    Quote Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat View Post
    Criticize it all you like-- it deserves it-- but our public education system certainly works far better than our healthcare system does.
    Depends on the district I guess. There are some fantastic public schools and then there are some that should have been condemned years ago. The health system needs work, but this bill needs to be repealed immediately in lieu of things that facilitate a streamlined approach to medicine using things that work and making room to improve things that don't. I also will concede that those reforms are needed fifteen years ago.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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