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Thread: George Rekers, Christian Right Leader, Denies Gay Prostitution Allegation

  1. #31
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    Re: George Rekers, Christian Right Leader, Denies Gay Prostitution Allegation

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    It's not "some scientists". It's the consensus of the scientific community as a whole.

    Do you think it's possible to turn someone gay?
    I think they do that in prisons.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: George Rekers, Christian Right Leader, Denies Gay Prostitution Allegation

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I just saw a news item on TV in which Rekers is now claiming (After nobody believed his first 2 excuses) that he brought rentboy with him in order to cure rentboy of his homosexuality.

    Looks like Reker's plan was to blow that homosexuality right out of rentboy. LOL.
    This is just appalling hypocrisy on many fronts....

    A. If the guy is homosexual, he shouldn't be approaching the issue of homosexuality with far greater sensitivity than he has. No one needs his holier-than-thou mantra, especially given that he is, in fact, less holy than thou.
    b. If, as a Christian, he believes homosexuality is a sin and he just committed that sin, he must publicly confess (given he publicly condemned) that sin and not compound it with lies. At least Ted Haggard eventually did this. Being in the leadership of the church means '...always having to say your are sorry...'
    c. As a hypocrite, he should resign. The last thing the church needs is hypocrites amongst its leadership.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 05-08-10 at 08:05 PM.

  3. #33
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    Re: George Rekers, Christian Right Leader, Denies Gay Prostitution Allegation

    He should be mature and simply come clean instead of insulting everyone's intelligence.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: George Rekers, Christian Right Leader, Denies Gay Prostitution Allegation

    I almost always fall on the side of what people do in private ain't none of my business. I think that is mostly true here too, except some of this is too funny.

    Rentboy...that had me laughing almost hysterically.

    A gay guy authoring books on how to raise strait kids...too awesome.

    The excuse that he was trying to cure the guy...truly priceless.

    Question for those without an addblocker: what kind of adds this thread getting? I remember before I switched to Firefox that any thread about gays used to have the most awesome adds.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: George Rekers, Christian Right Leader, Denies Gay Prostitution Allegation

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    One more thing on this, and I think I'll be done.

    Cases like this draw a lot of publicity because revelations of hypocrisy always sell newspapers (and the higher-tech equivalents).

    What is a shame is that many thousands of ministers work faithfully for what they believe, and the people they care about, day after day and year after year, never seeking the spotlight and going largely unnoticed by those who like to revel in these hypocrisy stories.
    This happens alot, and it's a shame. As a liberal, I get blamed for Cindy Sheehan, Code Pink, Ed Schultz, Al Sharpton and so on. We play the game of "guilty by association" far too often.

    By and large, most ministers are not child molesting closet gays and it is a damn shame that due to the nature of how things are reported it seems otherwise. I really do think most social conservatives at least try and live to the standards they espouse, with greater or lesser success.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: George Rekers, Christian Right Leader, Denies Gay Prostitution Allegation

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to address these issues thoughtfully and openly, I appreciate this.
    No problemo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I would tend to agree with you that while some apparently can, not everyone who is homosexual is capable of changing their orientation. I again refer to my own life-experience in an example: a gentleman I've known since childhood, a man of the highest character and quality, very bravely chose to marry an "ex-lesbian" woman who had supposedly changed her orientation and wished to pursue a hetero life. They were married and had a baby...and when the baby was about a year old, she left him and went back to her former lesbian partner. He was heartbroken... but he also said that he felt like she had honestly tried and just couldn't cope with the change.
    Your story illustrates an important point. It usually comes down to whether or not the "cured" person can repress reality, and for how long. I mean, the propaganda tells us that X number of people are "cured" every year, but how much follow up is done on those stories to see if it sticks, or if the person ends up developing mental illness like depression because of it?

    And what are the motivations for wanting to rid oneself of homosexuality? Is it truly because the person believes they are ill, or because of social pressures? I mean, people are only as functional as their surrounding community permits them to be. I can walk down the street in Vancouver holding hands with a guy and not get harassed; but maybe in a small town on the interior of BC I would get attacked, which, as a teenager, might give me pause to think that there is something wrong with me to deserve it. That is how the seed of abnormality gets planted, coercing people to seek "cures" for something that isn't even an illness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Well, I myself belong to a religion which views homosexuality as a sin. As an adherent of that religion, I am morally obligated to view homosexual activity with disapproval. Consider yourself "viewed with disapproval".

    Okay, now that that's out of the way... ... politically I don't think Gov has any business sticking its nose in the bedroom. Nor do I have any business sticking my nose in your bedroom. It's when these issues move into the public eye that things become more complicated. On the issue of gay marriage I have concerns and have not yet been convinced that the normalization of SSM is altogether desireable.
    I myself belong a predominantly heterosexual society, and as a member of that society I'm morally obligated to view homosexuality as an abomination. Accordingly, I am married to a woman and have two kids whom I love.

    Okay, now that that's out of the way, here is my gay lover Paul. We've been together for 22 years.

    Gay marriage is a contentious issue for the U.S. The debate arose in Canada earlier in the decade and was swiftly dealt with. Yeah, there are pockets of conservatives in Canada (particularly religious ones) who would love nothing more than to have it overturned, but the majority don't care. And actually, it's a non-issue now. Churches that are against it have the right to not perform ceremony, and gay married couples, much like straight married couples, lead low profile lives, especially if they have kids.

    I really think that people who hate homosexuals are just hating a concept. They have some idea in their mind of what it means and are aligned against it, but most of them have not befriended a gay person, gotten to know them, and had the chance to see what normal lives they live.

    In other words, I think the whole issue has been blown out of proportion. There are more important things to worry about. Anyway, I don't want this to become a SMS debate; we've both been down that road and it's never ending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    There was a time when I viewed science, and scientists, with enormous respect and a sense of awe at the "pure quest for knowlege". This was back in my early years at college when I still had some thought of becoming a scientific researcher myself. That was before I was actually exposed to the world of academia and researchers, and the pursuit of grants/funding/tenure/publication. The cut-throat internal politics I saw quite disgusted me and changed my perceptions of science and scientists dramatically. Further experiences with agenda-driven "polling" and "research" left me highly suspicious of all such sources, and extremely reluctant to believe in anyone's objectivity.

    Accordingly, I take what any "expert" or researcher says about any subject that is politically charged with a large helping of salt. Actually I am more inclined to listen to the well-reasoned words of individuals, who have impressed me with their honestly on a personal level and have some valid experience with the topic in question, than some faceless academic I've never met.
    I do agree that science is politically charged. We could get into a whole other discussion about this, but I think the politicization of it has intensified over the past 15-20 years a lot. Part of the problem is that science can now be bought by huge, huge corporations. Research funding also tends to determine the result. Peer reviewed journals are one of the last bastions of protected material. If it's not peer reviewed, I basically distrust it.

    I understand what you mean about individual stories. To me it's sometimes more important to listen to those, and after years of hearing them I have begun to make my own observations about trends. Some of them correspond to science, others do not. Homosexuality was removed from the psychiatric diagnostic books in 1979. I do think the gay rights movement had a lot to do with it, but not in a manipulative way.

    It was the gay rights movement that allowed scientific dialogue about homosexuality to happen at all, whereas prior to that era it was considered a mental illness because it conveniently coincided with the prejudices of the mainstream. Once science sobered up to reality, it quickly realized that it couldn't call an aspect of sexuality an illness like that. The prejudices of the mainstream still exist and science, in a lot of ways, is counter-culture to those sentiments; but science can sometimes back up the mainstream. It really depends on the topic.

    Let me just say, in short, that I don't think there is systemic bias when it comes to science supporting homosexuality. It is still actively looking for a genetic explanation without regard to the potential consequences if one is found. I have no doubt that we would see a movement - one that would perhaps infiltrate government policy - to exterminate homosexuality from the gene pool entirely.

    If science were pro-active in protecting gays, I don't think it would be looking so hard for a genetic explanation. After all, is there intensive research into the heterosexual gene? No, I don't think so. So they're searching for a homosexual gene under the premise that it's a deviation from the normal model: heterosexual genetics. As you can see, science also contains the same biases as the mainstream, that the base, or normal point of comparison, is heterosexuals, whereas the thing that sticks out or doesn't look right is the gays.

    I read a study recently that sisters of homosexual men tend to be more fertile and have a higher chance of multiple-baby births. There may yet be an evolutionary explanation for why this happens and we shouldn't be quick to eliminate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Okay, this makes a certain amount of sense, though I wouldn't overemphasize the religious "coercion" aspect when typically people enter these programs voluntarily....not to say that some might not do so reluctantly.
    Well, you have to put this into perspective. People may not be entering these programs with religious intentions, but virtually all of the programs stem from religious groups. The intentions of the "diseased" and the intentions of the groups are completely different. Most homosexuals go through a period where they are coming to terms with how they don't fit into social norms, and I dare say many even wish they weren't gay. But that's just the intense part of coming out and it has to do with fears of how your community will view you. People coming to be cured are largely caving to social pressures, whereas those providing the "cure" are doing so out of religious motivation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    As I've said, I don't claim to be an expert on this topic. My chief objection has been to the way some people want to paint it as strictly black-and-white, and assert that "NO homosexual-oriented person could possibly change their orientation ever" when I don't think it is at all that simple, nor that the evidence supports a strictly A-or-B viewpoint.
    Nothing is truly black and white but there are definitely trends. If we're just having a coffee table discussion about this then I am open to talking about fluidic sexuality, but if it's a government policy discussion then you have to look at the trend which is that gay people tend to stay gay their entire lives (as with straight people), and should not be expected to change or conform to a social norm that isn't in line with who they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Intresting discussion, thank you.
    Ditto.

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    Re: George Rekers, Christian Right Leader, Denies Gay Prostitution Allegation

    If being gay is a choice, why do so many fervent advocates of heterosexuality choose to be gay?

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