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Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

This is why:

If you notice that and rest of section 8 of the flag code they all deal with the actual flag and not a picture of a flag. This part ". However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart" does deal with patches and pins which are replicas(as pointed out by jallman)nothing about a picture of a flag on a piece of clothing.
 
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If you notice that and rest of section 8 of the flag code they all deal with the actual flag and not a picture of a flag. This part ". However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart" does deal with patches and pins which are replicas(as pointed out by jallman)nothing about a picture of a flag on a piece of clothing.

i hear you
it's not like that image of a flag printed on cloth is actually a flag or anything [/s]
 
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nothing about a picture of a flag on a piece of clothing.

You're drawing a false distinction between embroidered flag patches and other replicas and a "picture of a flag on a piece of clothing." If it is a reproduction of an image of a US flag, then it is a replica, thus governed by flag code. Why do complex mental gymnastics to get around the plain meaning and rationalize bad flag handling? Why not just give the flag its proper respect?
 
i hear you
it's not like that impage of a flag printed on cloth is actually a flag or anything [/s]

Actually, it's not technically a flag. A flag is a freestanding banner that represents a country, organization, or heraldry.

When you see it on clothing or in a picture, it's still just a picture of a flag and not a flag in and of itself.
 
When you see it on clothing or in a picture, it's still just a picture of a flag and not a flag in and of itself.

Right, technically it's a replica and thus it is governed by US Flag Code.
 
Actually, it's not technically a flag. A flag is a freestanding banner that represents a country, organization, or heraldry.

When you see it on clothing or in a picture, it's still just a picture of a flag and not a flag in and of itself.

you're getting close to getting it
that clothing you see made out of flag printed material
well, it was made out of a flag and violates flag etiquette
 
Right, technically it's a replica and thus it is governed by US Flag Code.

No it's not. The US Flag code doesn't have any jurisdiction over the colors red, white, and blue nor does it control the images of a star and stripes. It is only when those colors and symbols are placed on a fabric to be a free standing symbol of America does the combination actually become a "flag". Otherwise, it's just an image of a flag...a picture.

There's no way you are going to convince anyone without an agenda that a flag on a t-shirt is against the Flag codes.
 
No it's not. The US Flag code doesn't have any jurisdiction over the colors red, white, and blue nor does it control the images of a star and stripes. It is only when those colors and symbols are placed on a fabric to be a free standing symbol of America does the combination actually become a "flag". Otherwise, it's just an image of a flag...a picture.

There's no way you are going to convince anyone without an agenda that a flag on a t-shirt is against the Flag codes.

it's using the flag as a costume
a violation of flag etiquette
 
you're getting close to getting it

No, I've already got it. A flag is a free standing cloth or bunting that is flown to denote heraldry or national representation.

An image of a flag printed on a t-shirt is just an image of a flag. Period.
 
No, I've already got it. A flag is a free standing cloth or bunting that is flown to denote heraldry or national representation.

An image of a flag printed on a t-shirt is just an image of a flag. Period.

so, in your world, the image of a flag is not a flag
got it
 
it's using the flag as a costume
a violation of flag etiquette

No, wrapping yourself in a flag is using a flag as a costume. Having an image of a flag is having an image of a flag, even if its on your lapel or t-shirt.

There is no violation of flag etiquette here.
 
so, in your world, the image of a flag is not a flag
got it

In reality there is a difference between something and an image of something. I don't think you do get it but thats because you have your agenda here.
 
In reality there is a difference between something and an image of something. I don't think you do get it but thats because you have your agenda here.

when does a flag pattern printed on cloth quit being a flag?
 
when does a flag pattern printed on cloth quit being a flag?

When it ceases to be a separate cloth or bunting that can be flown as representation of the nation.

In other words, if you take the fabric and hang it from a pole and it doesn't fly exactly as the flag would, then it ain't a flag. It might have flag patterns of an image of the flag on it somewhere, but unless it flies from a staff and looks exactly like this when spread out:

american-flag.gif


it ain't a flag.
 
In reality there is a difference between something and an image of something. I don't think you do get it but thats because you have your agenda here.

If USC Title 4 Chapter 1 § 8(d) and (j) don't convince you that they mean what they say they mean, then I'd argue it is you who is advancing the agenda.

Once again, the pertinent provisions of Flag Code reads:
USC Title 4 Chapter 1 § 8(d) said:
The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

USC Title 4 Chapter 1 § 8(j) said:
No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

If you want to violate these provisions of the Flag Code, that is your right as an American, and though I may not agree with you I will defend to the death your right to violate flag code. Just don't try telling me you're being respectful to my flag when you do, because you are not.
 
When it ceases to be a separate cloth or bunting that can be flown as representation of the nation.

In other words, if you take the fabric and hang it from a pole and it doesn't fly exactly as the flag would, then it ain't a flag. It might have flag patterns of an image of the flag on it somewhere, but unless it flies from a staff and looks exactly like this when spread out:


american-flag.gif


it ain't a flag.

then what is it?
 
If USC Title 4 Chapter 1 § 8(d) and (j) don't convince you that they mean what they say they mean, then I'd argue it is you who is advancing the agenda.

Once again, the pertinent provisions of Flag Code reads:




If you want to violate these provisions of the Flag Code, that is your right as an American, and though I may not agree with you I will defend to the death your right to violate flag code. Just don't try telling me you're being respectful to my flag when you do, because you are not.

I read all that. Nothing in any of that indicates that a red white and blue pattern of stars and stripes is against that code unless it has been made into an actual free standing flag.

There is a huge difference between this:

american%20flag%20picture.jpg


And this:

4601461.jpg
 
The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.
The emphasis should also include "The flag", as in an actual flag being used for those purposes.
No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform.
Also, emphasis should again include "No part of the flag", as in actual flag being used in the patching/construction of such clothing.

Advancing one's personal opinion is admirable. And it is my opinion you are broadening the scope of the intended meaning of the code.

People have gas tanks on motorcycles looking like the flag, decals on auto's, bumper stickers and look at Evil Knievel, his clothing, motorcycle, are all these being disrespectful to the flag, or disrespectful to your opinion?
 
This conversation is starting to depress me. But let me see if I can't put it to rest by saying simply, Redbeard, Jallman and American you are all wrong.

USC Title 4 Chapter 1 Section 3 said:
[T]he words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.

I will give you all the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are not deliberately attempting to evade the plain meaning of US Flag Code. But please do read it, more than once if you have to, to try to understand its meaning and apply it properly.
 
This conversation is starting to depress me. But let me see if I can't put it to rest by saying simply, Redbeard, Jallman and American you are all wrong.

You can say it all you want but that doesn't make you correct. There is a difference between a flag and an flag pattern or a flag image. The code does not assert jurisdiction over red, white and blue stripes with stars unless they are actually on a flag.
 
You can say it all you want but that doesn't make you correct. There is a difference between a flag and an flag pattern or a flag image. The code does not assert jurisdiction over red, white and blue stripes with stars unless they are actually on a flag.

Ok, perhaps you are just glossing over the quote box or something, so here it is normally:

USC Title 4 Chapter 1 Section 3
[T]he words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.

Does that help clear things up?
 
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Ok, perhaps you are just glossing over the quote box or something, so here it is normally:

No, I'm not. I don't agree with your draconian interpretation and you aren't going to convince anyone here that having a flag pattern is a breach of the code.
 
You can say it all you want but that doesn't make you correct. There is a difference between a flag and an flag pattern or a flag image. The code does not assert jurisdiction over red, white and blue stripes with stars unless they are actually on a flag.

There are some images I would like to enter into evidence at this point, but I'm worried about getting an infraction...

Google "U.S. Flag thong"

Yes, the bulk of things the flag pattern is on tells me Jall is correct.
 
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