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Thread: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

  1. #381
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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Right. Fake mexican holiday, other kids wearing American flags "taunting".... What am I missing.
    Apparently that mocking a holiday celebrated by mexican-Americans for their own reasons is insensitive and could be construed as bigoted.



    The American flag, worn as these kids worn it, is not taunting. The actual taunting is taunting. They were sent home because of thier patriotic colors.....
    Do you have some links to back that up, some further reporting on the event that state these kids were not trying to bait the other students into a conflict.






    Do you think you sound intelligent constantly refering to those who fly the fag as nazis and KKK types?
    I was referring pictures posted earlier in this thread (or the other flag thread) that show that not everyone waving the flag is necessarily a 'good' person with purely patriotic motives.

    Why is it so hard to even admit that?

    Do you believe that we should not look at a person's motives simply because it's the American flag he is waving?


    BTW, ignorant one, Most Skinheads, are not racist.
    They love blacks and jews and immigrants. Right.

    Who is the ignorant one now?






    THIS IS AMERICA JACK.... What is wrong with you? Seriously? this is freaking America, on no day, do we dip our flag to another. WE ARE AMERICANS ON THIS FAKE MEXICAN HOLIDAY....

    See BOLD question above regarding the motives of the flag waver.









    Where did I bring up being white once? Please stop lying.
    Your 'go back to where they came from' comments are typical comments among KKK and white pride folks. Like I said, I never took you for one of those, but you've repeated that notion that they should all 'go back to where they came from'....so, I don't know what to make of it.

    and hey bra, this is like the 3rd time you in a veiled way called me a racist. I'll tell you what. Either cut it out, or come down to my basement and see how far you get with that check your mouth keeps writing.
    Like I said, I don't know what to make of your comments.

    If a person is angry, frustrated, dismayed by how he or his ancestors are/were treated by the United States, waving a U.S. Flag in his face on a holiday he considers important = baiting.

    I'd like to see the students with the flag shirts walk onto an Native American reservation durning a special celebration and begin telling them that this is 'fake' holiday and don't forget who's in charge.

  2. #382
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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Apparently that mocking a holiday celebrated by mexican-Americans for their own reasons is insensitive and could be construed as bigoted.

    you do realize, most Mexicans don't celebrate cinco de mayo. In fact, I'd bet you a platnium more non-hispanic folk celebrate it than Mexicans.




    [/quote]
    Do you have some links to back that up, some further reporting on the event that state these kids were not trying to bait the other students into a conflict.[/quote]

    Irrellevant. the reason they were sent home was due to the american flag adorned upon thier clothes....


    That in an of itself is not baiting. The onus is on you to prove "baiting"



    I was referring pictures posted earlier in this thread (or the other flag thread) that show that not everyone waving the flag is necessarily a 'good' person with purely patriotic motives.

    Whatever bro. You are equating patriotic kids, 2 of wich are half hispanic as white KKK racists. It's dishonest and lacks integrity.



    Do you believe that we should not look at a person's motives simply because it's the American flag he is waving?


    I think stating the American flag in and of itself is "baiting" and worthy of being sent home from school is abhorrent.


    They love blacks and jews and immigrants. Right.

    Who is the ignorant one now?

    You. As a skinhead in my youth, race had no part of my identity. In fact there were several hispanic, and yes black skinheads in my area. There are racist skinheads, anti-racist skinheads, and skinheads that just didn't care about race. In fact much of the Skinhead style can be tracked back to the jamacian rude boy thing in England.




    So to answer your question as to who is the "ignorant one now", I think its sufficient to say, that would be YOU


    Your 'go back to where they came from' comments are typical comments among KKK and white pride folks. Like I said, I never took you for one of those, but you've repeated that notion that they should all 'go back to where they came from'....so, I don't know what to make of it.

    Really? So am I suggesting they all go back where they came from, or am I suggesting the La Raza chicanos who are all butt hurt over the American flag go back to TJ where they can work at selling gringos cheap tequila and donkey shows?



    Like I said, I don't know what to make of your comments.

    No, you are too afraid to say this sort of inflamatory crap where you would have to justify it.




    If a person is angry, frustrated, dismayed by how he or his ancestors are/were treated by the United States, waving a U.S. Flag in his face on a holiday he considers important = baiting.

    Wait, what? How did the US treat him and his ancestors on this fake Corona beer mexicamerican holiday?





    I'd like to see the students with the flag shirts walk onto an Native American reservation durning a special celebration and begin telling them that this is 'fake' holiday and don't forget who's in charge.

    Now this is a whole different thing. This was a public school. they didn't enter a private society and start in on "USA USA" chants, no, they simply wore the colors of this great nation, that you find so offensive.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
    Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UFFZLf62EU&feature=related"]YouTube- Mr. Symarip - Skinhead Moonstomp (live)[/nomedia]


    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48LV6d61m-Q&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Mr. Symarip Skinhead girl[/nomedia]






    effin racists.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
    Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Left wingers burned flags in 1991 at protests during the Gulf War and prior to invading Iraq.......They even burned a soldier in effigy...........Were you there?
    No, I wasn't there. I was lost in CA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I think stating the American flag in and of itself is "baiting" and worthy of being sent home from school is abhorrent.
    And if want to show me where I said that, then you might have valid point.

    The rest is going in circles...

    You may have "identified" as a skinhead in your youth, and this may have been a lovely bunch of fellas hanging out, shaving each others heads.... however, if you're going to play dumb and pretend the skinhead reference I was making wasn't specifically to the group the majority of people associate with the white pride movement, I mean, what is the point? You're just playing a stupid game.

    That's like saying: I wasn't talking about the 'bad' neo-Nazis, I meant the one's who weren't racist at all... you know, those neo-nazis....

    No. We don't know.

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    And if want to show me where I said that, then you might have valid point.

    The rest is going in circles...

    You may have "identified" as a skinhead in your youth, and this may have been a lovely bunch of fellas hanging out, shaving each others heads.... however, if you're going to play dumb and pretend the skinhead reference I was making wasn't specifically to the group the majority of people associate with the white pride movement, I mean, what is the point? You're just playing a stupid game.

    That's like saying: I wasn't talking about the 'bad' neo-Nazis, I meant the one's who weren't racist at all... you know, those neo-nazis....

    No. We don't know.


    Actually, the only "Stupid" game here is the one your playing. Acting all outraged infering that I am a racist because I think these particular mexicans are a bunch of anti-american idiots who don't even know thier own holidays.

    The "stupid" comes out of your arguments where you cackle on and on about anyone daring to critisize the chicanos as "racist"


    The "Stupid" comes from you declaring the American flag offensive....


    There is plenty of "stupid" here, but you've used up all this threads allotment on stupid posts.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
    Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Ok, jallman and redbeard, since you both seem to be so certain that Flag Code states so clearly that flag t-shirts are exempted from Flag Code
    Please point, direct, copy and/or paste where such an statement of exemption was made?
    United States Code Title 4 Chapter 1 Section 8 (d), which states that flags must never be worn as apparel?
    I have a problem with somebody wearing a flag as apparel. It is obscene and disrespectful to the flag
    You made statement said t-shirt was a flag. Has been pointed out, not to be a flag, but an representative, image, symbol, imprint, copy, etc.
    A revision of your statement to I have a problem with somebody wearing an image of the flag as apparel. as an alternative. And "It is obscene and disrespectful to the flag, IMO". Trying to circumvent the code to fit your personal views, usually turns out to be a poor fit. The courts disagree with you on what is/is not considered obscene & disrespectful.
    Read TINKER vs. Des Moines also read (imo, burning the flag is disrespectful, court thinks otherwise) Justice William Brennan, speaking for the majority on flag burning in Texas V. Johnson "If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable..."

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Actually, the only "Stupid" game here is the one your playing. Acting all outraged infering that I am a racist because I think these particular mexicans are a bunch of anti-american idiots who don't even know thier own holidays.
    No, I think you sound racist when you say "go back to where they came from..."

    Putting words into my mouth doesn't erase your earlier posts in this thread. Sorry.

    The "stupid" comes out of your arguments where you cackle on and on about anyone daring to critisize the chicanos as "racist"
    I was criticizing you as sounding racist. I don't recall bringing up reverse racism. Again putting words in my mouth, etc. etc.

    You know when someone's argument has totally tanked, they started making crazy **** up and willy nilly.

    Keep goin', Rev... Let's see what else didn't I ever say:

    The "Stupid" comes from you declaring the American flag offensive....
    Again, putting crazy-ass words in my mouth, doesn't erase the racist-sounding things you said earlier.

    I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it was a heat of the moment type thing. But when you say "go back to where they came from" or things to that effect... it's too similar to things we've all heard the KKK and White Pride groups say.

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    No, I think you sound racist when you say "go back to where they came from..."

    Where did I say all mexicans. FAIL



    Putting words into my mouth doesn't erase your earlier posts in this thread. Sorry.

    If I actually did do that, it would make your arguments less dense.



    I was criticizing you as sounding racist. I don't recall bringing up reverse racism. Again putting words in my mouth, etc. etc.

    Having a tantrum indicates loss of all composure. Pull yourself together.




    You know when someone's argument has totally tanked, they started making crazy **** up and willy nilly.

    Like calling my point "Racist"? I agree.


    You're argument never tanked though, it just never floated the logic sea.


    Keep goin', Rev... Let's see what else didn't I ever say:
    This tantrum is tiring.





    Again, putting crazy-ass words in my mouth, doesn't erase the racist-sounding things you said earlier.

    I never said anything racists, wipe the tears from your eyes, calm down and read what I actually said... then you can stop embarrassing yourself.




    I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it was a heat of the moment type thing. But when you say "go back to where they came from" or things to that effect... it's too similar to things we've all heard the KKK and White Pride groups say.

    Let me take you on the train to simpletown..... CHOO CHOO..... Those types want all the "mud people" to go back to whence they came... I only suggested the ones offended by the stars and stripes go back, whether they are white, black, brown, or green.... the fail is and always will be. yours.


    ALL ABOARD!
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
    Don't hate me 'cause I'm beautiful, but hate me all the more.

  10. #390
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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbeard View Post
    Please point, direct, copy and/or paste where such an statement of exemption was made?
    Why, did you forget what side of the argument you're on?
    You said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbeard View Post
    You do realize the difference between wearing an actual flag as clothing and wearing an t-shirt with a "picture" of the flag.
    I assume your point with this is that because a "t-shirt with a "picture" of the flag" is exempted from Flag Code "while wearing an actual flag as clothing" is not. That is incorrect. Wearing an literal flag and a t-shirt with a picture of a flag are exactly equivalent in the eyes of the Flag Code, and are both violations.

    A flag t-shirt is a flag, according to USC Chapter 4 Title 1 Section 3, for purposes of flag code, any image or representation of a flag is [i]a flag[/a] even if it is a no literally a flag in the sense that it is flown from a staff. A flag on a t-shirt isn't a literal flag, but it is a flag according to the definition given in Flag Code. Think about it, a lapel pin isn't a flag, it doesn't fly from a staff and it is made out of metal, it's just an image really. But it is clear governed by Flag Code.


    Quote Originally Posted by Redbeard View Post
    You made statement said t-shirt was a flag. Has been pointed out, not to be a flag, but an representative, image, symbol, imprint, copy, etc.
    A revision of your statement to I have a problem with somebody wearing an image of the flag as apparel. as an alternative. And "It is obscene and disrespectful to the flag, IMO". Trying to circumvent the code to fit your personal views, usually turns out to be a poor fit.
    You point out that I "revised" my statement, but what I was actually doing was making it more clear. It is in fact you who is attempting to circumvent the code by trying to interpret it in such a way that flag t-shirts are not covered by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbeard View Post
    The courts disagree with you on what is/is not considered obscene & disrespectful.
    Read TINKER vs. Des Moines also read (imo, burning the flag is disrespectful, court thinks otherwise) Justice William Brennan, speaking for the majority on flag burning in Texas V. Johnson "If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable..."
    Ok, I'm starting to see where the misunderstanding is coming from. I know all about Tinker, and the point of that case is that the first amendment prevents the government from You are absolutely right that burning the flag in protest is not a crime, likewise wearing a flag t-shirt is not a crime.

    But this is completely irrelevant to a discussion of Flag Code. You see, USC Title 4 Chapter 1 is totally voluntary, it doesn't criminalize anything. But it is the official rule of flag etiquette promulgated the the United States government. If you want to handle the flag in some other way and call it respectful, that's your business and it isn't a crime (it can't be a crime, in fact). But putting the flag on the ground, hanging it upside down and wearing it as a t-shirt are, in fact, disrespectful, according the the United States government.

    You say, "the courts disagree with you on what is/is not considered obscene & disrespectful." But indeed, the very quotation from Tinker you employ above acknowledges that "society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable." Violations of Flag Code are just such offensive and disagreeable things. They are disrespectful to the flag. You and I don't get to pick and choose what is respectful to the flag, that is up to Congress to decide, and they are unequivocal about it.

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