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Thread: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Ploy? It's at the heart of the issue, in this cartoonist's opinion. Sure, I recognize what the administrator actually suspended the students for, but I find it highly irritating that in all this discussion nobody is bothering to bring up the fact that what these kids did is highly disrespectful to the flag.
    What they did was not illegal, nor did it break a school rule. Next.
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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbeard View Post
    Very good point about proper respect.
    You do realize the difference between wearing an actual flag as clothing and wearing an t-shirt with a "picture" of the flag.
    That's a fair point, but I would argue it is a mistaken one. Wherever a flag is printed it is actual flag material. There are very strict rules about wearing the flag, even an image of the flag (the two are really indistinct). It is limited to a lapel pin (which is also just a "picture" of a flag, but nevertheless governed by US Flag Code).

    Furthermore, even if we grant-- and I do not grant this, but for the sake of arugment-- that an image of a flag incorporate into a t-shirt is acceptable (say, a reprint of the Iowa Jima monument), that is not what these kids were wearing. At least one of them wore a shirt that was covered 100% with the pattern of the flag, it looked like he'd taken a flag an cut out holes to turn it into a shirt, for crying out loud.

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Ploy? It's at the heart of the issue, in this cartoonist's opinion. Sure, I recognize what the administrator actually suspended the students for, but I find it highly irritating that in all this discussion nobody is bothering to bring up the fact that what these kids did is highly disrespectful to the flag.
    No it wasn't. It hasn't been seen as a sign of disrespect since Tommy Hilfiger did his best to ruin black fashion in the early 1990's.

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    T-shirts not made of same material as flags.
    A second look at the lad you are questioning would reveal the back being all white material, front being a picture of a flag waving in the breeze.

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Sorry, jallman, but you lost me there. I don't really follow the world of haute fashion very closely.

    Regardless, it does not matter what fashion designers may be doing with the flag, or what is or is not "acceptable." It is an issue of following US flag code. I will grant you that it is not binding law on how to handle the flag, it says so within the code. According to the first amendment you can trample the flag into the dirt and be within your rights. But that doesn't make it "acceptable" even if everybody else is doing it.

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Sorry, jallman, but you lost me there. I don't really follow the world of haute fashion very closely.

    Regardless, it does not matter what fashion designers may be doing with the flag, or what is or is not "acceptable." It is an issue of following US flag code. I will grant you that it is not binding law on how to handle the flag, it says so within the code. According to the first amendment you can trample the flag into the dirt and be within your rights. But that doesn't make it "acceptable" even if everybody else is doing it.
    And the US flag code only states that the flag itself cannot be used as clothing, not that the flag may not appear on clothing. The flag itself may not be used as a drape, bedding, clothing, statue cover, ceiling cover, nor should it be flown on the same staff as another banner other than a state flag. And then it should always be flown on top.

    The only things the flag is prohibited from appearing on at all are napkins, paper products, handkerchiefs, boxes or other disposable items.

    And anyone who believes this principal was trying to be adhere to an obscure code on how to handle the flag, with the most draconian interpretation of that code ever presented, then they are either agenda driven or just plain full of it.

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbeard View Post
    T-shirts not made of same material as flags.
    Neither are lapel pins or patches, but they are still governed by flag code.

    Quote Originally Posted by TITLE 4 > CHAPTER 1 > 8 Respect for Flag
    "No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart."
    Simply put, Flag Code governs all images of the flag, whether they are actuals flags or not. Flag Code is voluntary, but it is still necessary to follow it if you want to show proper respect to our flag.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 05-14-10 at 06:59 PM.

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    And the US flag code only states that the flag itself cannot be used as clothing, not that the flag may not appear on clothing. The flag itself may not be used as a drape, bedding, clothing, statue cover, ceiling cover, nor should it be flown on the same staff as another banner other than a state flag. And then it should always be flown on top.

    The only things the flag is prohibited from appearing on at all are napkins, paper products, handkerchiefs, boxes or other disposable items.
    What about Missiles? Or condoms?

    You shouldn't write the f-word on a military airplane... because it's obscene.

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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Sorry, jallman, but you lost me there. I don't really follow the world of haute fashion very closely.

    Regardless, it does not matter what fashion designers may be doing with the flag, or what is or is not "acceptable." It is an issue of following US flag code. I will grant you that it is not binding law on how to handle the flag, it says so within the code. According to the first amendment you can trample the flag into the dirt and be within your rights. But that doesn't make it "acceptable" even if everybody else is doing it.
    i agree with your position. VFW Post 2423 offers the following flag etiquette to maintain standards of respect:
    The Flag Code, which formalizes and unifies the traditional ways in which we give respect to the flag, also contains specific instructions on how the flag is not to be used. They are:

    The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. It is flown upside down only as a distress signal.

    The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speakers desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.

    The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard.

    The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.

    The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.

    The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
    VFW Post 2423 - Flag Etiquette

    and this etiquette is becoming more ignored over time, to the point that it has become acceptable in many quarters to ignore its provisions - especially regarding attire. go to any country western event and you will see the flag as ornamentation in the audience and frequently even on stage

    but the school indicated the kids were welcome to wear their inappropriate flag attire on any other day. which means this legitimate reason to take issue with what they were wearing was not the basis for their punishment

    what we do not know - at least i do not know - is whether the students were provocative toward the mexican-American students in ways other than the wearing of flag attire, and that was justification for the way this was (poorly) handled
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    Re: Students Wearing American Flag Shirts Sent Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Neither are lapel pins or patches, but they are still governed by flag code.



    Simply put, Flag Code governs all images of the flag, whether they are actuals flags or not. Flag Code is voluntary, but it is still necessary to follow it if you want to show proper respect to our flag.
    Which bans an image of a flag...how?

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