Page 22 of 28 FirstFirst ... 122021222324 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 220 of 278

Thread: Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

  1. #211
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Well, I guess they can all come to Texas, then.
    What if all the other states enacted and enforced laws similar to those in Arizona and Oklahoma? 12-20 million plus illegals and their anchor babies is a lot to deal with.

    For all our flaws, we don't make laws persecuting Mexicans.
    What Arizona laws does that? Here is the law,please highlight,copy and paste the part that specifically targets Mexicans.

    http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

    We manage to coexist peacefully side by side with them, and you know what?
    Go for you, But I am pretty sure a lot of Texans disagree with you.

    No reason to demonize Mexicans or look for scapegoats when everything's going so well for us.
    This isn't about demonizing Mexicans. Are trying to argue that all Mexicans are illegals? Isn't that a racist thing to say??
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  2. #212
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    05-20-10 @ 11:02 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    314

    Re: Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    Do you have another source? I don't remember seeing this said in the links I provided.
    Is anything MORE hilarious than this, ever? The poster refers to links that he uses to defend his posts - that don't even back up what he keeps referring to. Then he continues to attack ME for not reading them...just hilarious...

  3. #213
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    05-20-10 @ 11:02 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    314

    Re: Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

    Quote Originally Posted by acidrain! View Post
    you think they want to be here illegally they would be legally if they could this law made Arizona a police state they have to much power. once again proving American democracy is American hypocracy.
    You're right - EVERY country on earth that defends its borders is a police state.

  4. #214
    Tavern Bartender
    Constitutionalist
    American's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    76,301

    Re: Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    They did similar stories when Oklahoma enacted HB1804. NExt will be how the poor farmers or construction companies are having a hard time finding workers.
    In other news, Americans are finding jobs in construction as housing prices climb.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  5. #215
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    Do you have another source? I don't remember seeing this said in the links I provided.
    See post #148. It's all from your own source:

    Center for Immigration Studies

    From the executive summary:

    On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households
    They cost less than half as much as legal households according to a study from a website that should be very trusted by the anti-illegal camp.

    Another point:

    Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them.
    Proof that citizens are more expensive than illegals, specifically because of their level of access.

    Another point proving this:

    Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments
    It is simple common sense to note that unskilled citizens will mimic the patterns of unskilled legal immigrants with regards to very modest tax payments, but that they will have greater access to federal programs.



    As far as my statements on Social Security and Medicare:

    Although we find that the net effect of illegal households is negative at the federal level, the same is not true for Social Security and Medicare. We estimate that illegal households create a combined net benefit for these two programs in excess of $7 billion a year, accounting for about 4 percent of the total annual surplus in these two programs. However, they create a net deficit of $17.4 billion in the rest of the budget, for a total net loss of $10.4 billion. Nonetheless, their impact on Social Security and Medicare is unambiguously positive.

    I'm not making anything up, and if you've read the entire study that you linked in post 142, then nothing of what I've been saying should come as a surprise.

    It's all there in the study, from a source that is not at all on "my side" of the argument.


    Now, I've also don additional calculations based on this table:



    Primarily the "percent with zero federal income tax liability". In the "all other households" column, you'll note that 32% of all other households have zero federal income tax liability. This is important because we've got 32% of 120,107,583 which equals about 38,434,427 total LEGAL households that are a pure dead weight that even if we assume that they are taking on the average federal burden of citizens (instead of what common sense would imply to be a GREATER burden than that of higher income households) they are costing us twice as much as the illegal households are.

    Twice as much, yet contributing nothing to the federal income taxes.


    So, then using the lack of federal income tax liability as our metric, and assuming that all other tax payments mimic the averages for other households (which is highly unlikely), we can make a few changes to this table:



    In this case, we can take the $15,099 total tax payments and deduct $7,103 to reflect the zero income tax liability of these households.

    This would mean that they contribute a total of $7,996 of total taxes (This number is probably lower due to the fact that they have no income tax liability would strongly suggest that they have lower incomes than the average household, but the numbers still prove my point without adjusting these data lower.)

    If they still cost the same on average as all households, they would cost $15,101 (this is probably also a lower number than what would be reflected in reality since most of the costs are being accrued by lower income households, primarily welfare programs and other assistance programs.)

    This means a minimum net deficit per household of $7,105 compared to the $2,736 net deficit of illegal households.

    So now we just take the average deficits multiply them by the number of total households.

    If we take 38,434,427 zero liability legal households at an average cost of $7,105 we get a total burden of $273,076,603,835 or for the sake of ease, we'll just say $273 billion.

    If we replaced all of those households with illegals we get 38,434,427 * $2,736 = $105,156,592,272 (or for the sake of ease, $105 billion)

    This means my plan of deportation of dead weight legal citizens and replacing them with illegal aliens would have a net benefit to our federal coffers of $168 billion dollars.

    Both of these demographics represent a burden on the economy. It is my contention that the most expedient and economically sound approach would be to replace the greater burden (citizens) with the lesser one (illegal aliens).
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 05-10-10 at 10:39 AM.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  6. #216
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

    Quote Originally Posted by rogerredy View Post
    Is anything MORE hilarious than this, ever? The poster refers to links that he uses to defend his posts - that don't even back up what he keeps referring to. Then he continues to attack ME for not reading them...just hilarious...
    Actually, I've just proven that his sources very much do back up my position.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  7. #217
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    05-16-15 @ 02:32 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,537

    Re: Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

    1. the president REFUSES to enforce federal law on the border

    2. instead he THROWS STONES at the PEOPLE OF ARIZONA for doing HIS job

    3. what's HIS answer to the issue?

    4. COMPREHENSIVE reform

    5. fine

    6. but WHERE is it?

    7. WHEN? HOW?

    8. ie, he offers NOTHING

    9. except POLITICAL stone throwing

    10. hispanics are gonna feel as USED by this CHEAP politico as gays, strung along

  8. #218
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    05-20-10 @ 11:02 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    314

    Re: Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households
    These are federal costs, not state/local ones, who bear most of the burden.

    Proof that citizens are more expensive than illegals, specifically because of their level of access.
    Legal citizens using/not using services is not the thread topic, nor of interest to the discussion.

    Further, illegals, even if they cost "less" than a legal citizen is totally irrelevent - they would cost NOTHING if they were not here.

    It is simple common sense to note that unskilled citizens will mimic the patterns of unskilled legal immigrants with regards to very modest tax payments, but that they will have greater access to federal programs.
    Again, of no value to the thread.

    As far as my statements on Social Security and Medicare: Although we find that the net effect of illegal households is negative at the federal level, the same is not true for Social Security and Medicare.
    More nonsense. The chart shows that there is a net cost per illegal HH, which would be ZERO if they were not here. That they might ON AVG cost LESS than some legal HHs is meaningless.

    And again, these figures do not include state/local costs, which are the truer burden, since states cannot just borrow endlessly to pay for their budget deficits.

    Both of these demographics represent a burden on the economy.
    Again, whether there are legals utilizing services or not is not the thread topic, and every penny that the illegals use is a huge problem. And their horrific burden and waste of local/state revenue is inarguable.

  9. #219
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Seen
    05-20-10 @ 11:02 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    314

    Re: Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Actually, I've just proven that his sources very much do back up my position.
    Not in the least...

  10. #220
    Matthew 16:3

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Everywhere and nowhere
    Last Seen
    06-24-17 @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    45,603

    Re: Immigrant Families Leave Arizona, Fearing Law

    Quote Originally Posted by rogerredy View Post
    These are federal costs, not state/local ones, who bear most of the burden.
    Then it's up to the States to pass their own laws about Immigration to protect their own money, which is already my stated preference.

    Legal citizens using/not using services is not the thread topic, nor of interest to the discussion.

    Further, illegals, even if they cost "less" than a legal citizen is totally irrelevent - they would cost NOTHING if they were not here.
    Pure drivel.

    Deportation ain't free. To deport 12 million people would, according to Julie Myers (Republican), cost around $94 billion. That's at the low end. I've seen expected costs ranging up to $285 billion.

    And that's just to get rid of the ones that are here. It doesn't include the costs of preventing them from re-entering. Them not being here would cost more than them being here.

    But as my numbers show, deporting citizens and replacing them with illegals would pay for itself in no time based on the savings!

    On top of that, the citizens being deported are known for being lazy and uninspired, unlike the illegals who'll keep trying again and again. And if we revoke the citizenship of the citizens we deport, they can only come back as illegals... which is fine. That's more savings!

    So how is pointing out the most economical solution to the illegal immigration problem "irrelevant"?

    simple answer: It's not. It's totally relevant to a solutions-oriented discussion.


    Again, of no value to the thread.



    More nonsense. The chart shows that there is a net cost per illegal HH, which would be ZERO if they were not here. That they might ON AVG cost LESS than some legal HHs is meaningless.
    And the Legal households would cost ZERO if they were not here. Have you actually figured out my argument yet, or have you missed it this entire time?

    Seriously?

    Because you are not equipped to debate against my points if you haven't even started to comprehend my points.

    And again, these figures do not include state/local costs, which are the truer burden, since states cannot just borrow endlessly to pay for their budget deficits.
    And Legal citizens will cost more there too.



    Again, whether there are legals utilizing services or not is not the thread topic, and every penny that the illegals use is a huge problem. And their horrific burden and waste of local/state revenue is inarguable.
    Spare the melodrama. If you aren't intellectually honest enough to actually consider the very economical solutions I've proposed that would save our country hundreds of billions of dollars every single year, at least have the decency to not drag the discussion down to melodramatic hysterics.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

Page 22 of 28 FirstFirst ... 122021222324 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •