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Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

Goobieman said:
Your question does not address -my- point, and so there is no reason for me to answer it. Perhaos you should try to figure out what my point is -- it shoud be very easy as I have been very clear.
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CriticalThought said:
You can't prove a subjective belief.
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Wait... I thought you said that there were two tenets of Christianity.
That's a subjective belief?
No wonder you don't want to have to try to prove your position.

The question then must be asked -- if your version of the tenets of Christianity is subjective, and you know it, who are you to say that someone elses's version is wrong?
 
CriticalThought said:
http://clemsongirlbaseball.mlblogs.com/epicfail.jpg
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Says he who made a claim that he knows he can't even begin to try to prove.

Never mind that this does nothing to change the fact that I have, very clearly, made an argument.
 
Goobieman said:
Says he who made a claim that he knows he can't even begin to try to prove.

Never mind that this does nothing to change the fact that I have, very clearly, made an argument.
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And I very clearly stated I would play your game. The argument was simply to test your equivocation. You lost. Let me know when you figure it out.
 
CriticalThought said:
And I very clearly stated I would play your game. The argument was simply to test your equivocation. You lost. Let me know when you figure it out.
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You may run away at your leisure - the fact remains, that I -did- make an exceptionally clear argument, one that is necessarily sound, and one you have done nothing to counter.

But then, you didn't pay enough attention to the conversation to figure out what that argument is...
 
DarkWizard12 said:
I kinda see this as ironic. Didn't christians settle america to flee from religious persecution, specifically from UK?

This really shouldn't surprise anyone. UK has been haten' on christians that actually read the bible themselves for centuries now. Hell, the UK has been silently hating on their own state-church. They are not a bastion of freedom in europe, even if some of their citizens like to claim it is.
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The original pilgrims left the UK for Holland. When the freedom and liberalism of Holland seemed too much for them, they went to the New World. They came to America to establish a more pious society. No to establish freedom of religion.
 
Goobieman said:
You may run away at your leisure - the fact remains, that I -did- make an exceptionally clear argument, one that is necessarily sound, and one you have done nothing to counter.

But then, you didn't pay enough attention to the conversation to figure out what that argument is...
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The only argument you have made is that if there are tenets to Christianity, that people would have to abide by them to be considered Christian.

The argument is irrelevant. You can't prove that there are tenets to Christianity. Even if there are, then you can't prove what those tenets are.

So you haven't made an argument. You have made a subjective assumption and demand that people prove your assumption wrong. You might as well ask people to prove that infinite doesn't come to an end.
 
CriticalThought said:
The only argument you have made is that if there are tenets to Christianity, that people would have to abide by them to be considered Christian.
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Yes. And I am absolutely correct.

The argument is irrelevant.
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Not in a conversation discussin whether or not people sho do or do not believe homoseuality is a sin are actually Christians or not. My arguemtn creates a test to that end, and so is -nevessarily- relevant.

You can't prove that there are tenets to Christianity. Even if there are, then you can't prove what those tenets are.
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Actually YOU cannot prove this as you have so wonderfully shown.

So you haven't made an argument.
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Yes, yes I have, and it is sound.

You have made a subjective assumption...
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There's no subjectivity in my argument, at all - it states a necessary truth, nothing more, nothing less.

The probelem YOU have here is that you find yourself wanting to discuss an argument I didn't make and then expect me to defend that argument.

A little more critical thought on your part would have left you simply agreeing with me.
 
Goobieman said:
Yes. And I am absolutely correct.


Not in a conversation discussin whether or not people sho do or do not believe homoseuality is a sin are actually Christians or not. My arguemtn creates a test to that end, and so is -nevessarily- relevant.


Actually YOU cannot prove this as you have so wonderfully shown.


Yes, yes I have, and it is sound.


There's no subjectivity in my argument, at all - it states a necessary truth, nothing more, nothing less.

The probelem YOU have here is that you find yourself wanting to discuss an argument I didn't make and then expect me to defend that argument.

A little more critical thought on your part would have left you simply agreeing with me.
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:rofl

You just proved my point and you aren't even aware of it.
 
CriticalThought said:
Can't exactly run away from nothing.
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Then why are you running so hard and fast?

As I said, the probelem YOU have here is that you find yourself wanting to discuss an argument I didn't make and then expect me to defend that argument.

One you admit that, at least to yourself, you can move on.
 
Goobieman said:
Then why are you running so hard and fast?

As I said, the probelem YOU have here is that you find yourself wanting to discuss an argument I didn't make and then expect me to defend that argument.

One you admit that, at least to yourself, you can move on.
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Okay, I confess that I cannot prove or disprove that there are tenets to Christianity, that would define people as Christian. And furthermore I confess I cannot prove or disprove what these tenets are or how they best adhered to. And I confess that I cannot prove or dispove whether Christianity is in fact true. And I confess I cannot prove or disprove that there is a God.

But I can prove one thing.

Neither can you.

HENCE WHY YOU LOST AND YOU STILL HAVEN'T FIGURED IT OUT.
 
CriticalThought said:
Okay, I confess that I cannot prove or disprove that there are tenets to Christianity, that would define people as Christian. And furthermore I confess I cannot prove or disprove what these tenets are or how they best adhered to. And I confess that I cannot prove or dispove whether Christianity is in fact true. And I confess I cannot prove or disprove that there is a God.
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Good for you!
Now, if you would have put more critical thought into your posts, you would have realized this a long time ago and not wasted so much of my time.
But I can prove one thing.
Neither can you.
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A little MORE critical thought on your part and you would have realized that as I haven't made any claim to that effect, your statement here is utterly meaningless.

-MY- argument remains sound.
 
Goobieman said:
Good for you!
Now, if you would have put more critical thought into your posts, you would have realized this a long time ago and not wasted so much of my time.

A little MORE critical thought on your part and you would have realized that as I haven't made any claim to that effect, your statement here is utterly meaningless.

-MY- argument remains sound.
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Yes, your argument is that you cannot prove or disprove anything about Christianity, only a hypothetical that if there are tenets to Christianity, then people would have to adhere to them to be considered Christians. What a wonderfully irrelevant argument. I'm sure you are real proud.
 
CriticalThought said:
Yes, your argument is that you cannot prove or disprove anything about Christianit....
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No, its not. Pay more attention.

only a hypothetical that if there are tenets to Christianity, then people would have to adhere to them to be considered Christians
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That's not a hypothetical -- that's a statement of fact.

What a wonderfully irrelevant argument.
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As noted before, how to determine if a particular belief is nor is not "Christian" is completely relevant to the issue.

I'm sure you are real proud.
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Well, no -- illustrating the error of your ways is not much of a challenge, and so do so as well as I have really isnt much to be proud of.

If you exercised some critical thought, it might be different.
 
Goobieman said:
Your question does not address -my- point, and so there is no reason for me to answer it. Perhaos you should try to figure out what my point is -- it shoud be very easy as I have been very clear.
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Do you believe that gay/lesbians can BE Christians?
 
Goobieman said:
No, its not. Pay more attention.


That's not a hypothetical -- that's a statement of fact.


As noted before, how to determine if a particular belief is nor is not "Christian" is completely relevant to the issue.


Well, no -- illustrating the error of your ways is not much of a challenge, and so do so as well as I have really isnt much to be proud of.

If you exercised some critical thought, it might be different.
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Yawn.

Yes. You can construct a syllogism.

Good boy. We are all very impressed.

Now unless you have an actual relevant argument to make...like what you believe the tenets of Christianity are, or why homosexuality relates to those tenets, then I think you should just be happy with your accomplishment today of using 4th grade logic.
 
Jerry said:
You should be free to do it anywhere on the globe.

It's what we call a "human right", a product of universal morality.

While the moral relativist must concede that stoning women for being raped is acceptable if that's what that society wants, the moral universalist understands that there is a basic human decency which all humans should be held to, that rape is always wrong and so is oppressing free speech and ideas.

It doesn't matter what country this story is in, in fact if we were 200 years in the future it wouldn't matter if this story were taking place on a space station, martian settlement or whatever. Free speech is a basic human right and it should be defended to the death.
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PFFT. Of course, a temporary arrest is the same as being stoned to death for being raped.

I've already said that it's not right, but you people trying to pretend that it's going to happen any day now here in America are just lying for your own political satisfaction.

I simply make the point that it's not an American story (as many on this thread seem to believe) - and now I'm a "moral relativist".

It's wrong, sure. But to compare it to women being raped and murdered only shows YOUR moral relativism.
 
Goobieman said:
It's not MY fault that you cannot prove your position, a position that you tried to argue for some time (and then suddenly.changed).

Perhaps you should try to put more "critical thought" in your claims before you make them and your positions before you take them - perhaps then you would not find yourself in this situation where you cannot show that your argument is sound.

Also, see the recent post from Catz Part Deux and tell us how he is wrong.

And in any event, -my- original point remains:
If you follow the tenets of Christianty, you are are Christian; if you do not, you are not.
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The thing about this whole stream of argument that upsets me is that you ignore that different sects of Christianity have different beliefs.

Thus, if I'm reading you right, you believe that only those who believe exactly as you do are actually Christian.

I happen to think differently. So, I suppose, in your mind, that makes me not a Christian.

Personally, I've always believed that the opposite of faith is NOT doubt. The opposite of faith is CERTAINTY. Faith is trusting in that which we do not - in fact CAN NOT know.

The belief that one is SO right in their practice that they deign to know the mind of GOd are actually the ones who are not strong in their faith.

Those who believe that the laws should exactly reflect their Christian moral code are, indeed, the least confident in their faith - because they wish to make those whose free will is unlike theirs into criminals.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Enough of the baiting and trolling. Conduct yourselves appropriately or get booted from the thread and possibly more.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
YOU HAVE NOT BEEN PERSECUTED. You've had your say, and others have had theirs. That's called free speech.

Here is what persecution looks like:

iran_teens_dead.jpg


kristallnacht.gif


Try to choke back your tears of suffering now, and carry on.
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OMG, Catz. You need an exorcism, and the TD demon must be cast out. :mrgreen:
 
FilmFestGuy said:
The thing about this whole stream of argument that upsets me is that you ignore that different sects of Christianity have different beliefs.

Thus, if I'm reading you right, you believe that only those who believe exactly as you do are actually Christian.
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Nowhere have I said anything like that.

I said that Christianity has a certain set of beliefs; if the belief that Homosexulaity is a sin is included in that set of beliefs, then any supposedly Christian sect that does not believe that homosexuality is a sin is not Christian.
 
CriticalThought said:
Yawn.
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You have been putting me alseep for some time now -- its not surprising you finally affected youeself...

Yes. You can construct a syllogism.
Good boy. We are all very impressed.
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And so far, you have constructed.... nothing.
You tried to counter what I said and failed.

Now unless you have an actual relevant argument to make
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As noted before, how to determine if a particular belief is nor is not "Christian" is completely relevant to the issue.
 
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