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Thread: Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

  1. #301
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    Re: Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    No personal sympathy for the dude here. Don't think he should've been arrested for being a bigot, but I might have been arrested for "disturbing the peace" if I went out in public yelling at people (whether it had to do with religion or not).

    And of course the fundies will claim that some random asshole getting (possibly) unfairly charged with a crime = "The New World Order".
    Well, this is one area where I find my self on the right side of the political spectrum....

    The preacher commenting that homosexuality is a sin does not make him a bigot, it makes him true to the Word. Sorry, but the Bible, which Christians take seriously as the divinely inspired word of God is pretty clear on the subject. If secular politics wish to go another way, they are departing from the Word. Its a very slipperly slope (politically and eternally) to try to suggest that the Church needs to down play their stance on homosexuality in the interest of political correctness.

    I do agree, however, that many Christian zealots are rather obsessed with homosexuality as if it were the only sin (where is the equal outrage on greed and divorce, two areas Christ spoke about, where Christ did not speak on homosexuality specifically) This obsession borders on hate for homosexuals for some Christians and even crosses the line for others. So, hate speech from otherwise good intentioned Christians does exist.

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    Re: Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I'm glad you noted. Now note how wrong you are and work to fix it. Be the change you hope for.
    Please... continue to exhibit your delusions at your leisure - I, for one, get a kick out of goading you into this sort of self-abusing behavior.

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    Re: Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Well, this is one area where I find my self on the right side of the political spectrum....

    The preacher commenting that homosexuality is a sin does not make him a bigot, it makes him true to the Word. Sorry, but the Bible, which Christians take seriously as the divinely inspired word of God is pretty clear on the subject. If secular politics wish to go another way, they are departing from the Word. Its a very slipperly slope (politically and eternally) to try to suggest that the Church needs to down play their stance on homosexuality in the interest of political correctness.
    So what about these laws then? If he's being 100% true to the Word, then he'd have to teach these too:


    ---

    Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

    Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)


    Kill Fortunetellers

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)


    Death for Hitting Dad

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



    Death for Cursing Parents

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



    Death for Adultery

    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

    Death for Fornication

    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

    Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

    4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

    5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

    If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

    9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

    ---

    I do agree, however, that many Christian zealots are rather obsessed with homosexuality as if it were the only sin (where is the equal outrage on greed and divorce, two areas Christ spoke about, where Christ did not speak on homosexuality specifically) This obsession borders on hate for homosexuals for some Christians and even crosses the line for others. So, hate speech from otherwise good intentioned Christians does exist.
    I don't agree. No Christians actually follow the Bible 100% literally anyway. If they did, then Christians would have to kill pretty much anyone who isn't a Christian and live in a fascist theocracy like Muslim Iran. If they want a respectable religion, then they'll have to learn to change with the time, just like they have been doing since the religion began. If they don't then they'll just kill off their own religion because people in this country will see how insane fundamentalism is and flock away from it in droves.

    So either way, I guess we're better off.
    Last edited by Toothpicvic; 05-05-10 at 03:56 PM.

  4. #304
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    Re: Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    You can't achieve civil rights for all marginalized people at the same time. It's not indicative of any hypocrisy, it's just that it's most likely impossible.

    Baby steps.
    Sure you can.

    No one has a civil right to not be offended by what others say.

    Why aren't the gays being arrested because they're offending the people who don't like what they have to say?

    Hmmm? Only people who go in the back door can use their civil rights?

  5. #305
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    Re: Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    So what about these laws then?

    Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

    Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)


    Kill Fortunetellers

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)



    Death for Hitting Dad

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



    Death for Cursing Parents

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



    Death for Adultery

    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

    Death for Fornication

    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

    Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

    4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

    5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

    If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

    9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

    ---


    I don't agree. No Christians actually follow the Bible 100% literally anyway. If they did, then Christians would have to kill pretty much anyone who isn't a Christian and live in a fascist theocracy like Muslim Iran. If they want a respectable religion, then they'll have to learn to change with the time, just like they have been doing since the religion began. If they don't then they'll just kill off their own religion because people in this country will see how insane fundamentalism is and flock away from it in droves.

    So either way, I guess we're better off.
    Actually, if they were following it 100%, all the stuff you listed would STILL not apply because there is no sanhedrien to judge and pass down the sentence.

    beat. that.

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    Re: Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkWizard12 View Post
    Actually, if they were following it 100%, all the stuff you listed would STILL not apply because there is no sanhedrien to judge and pass down the sentence.
    Then why do Christians quote Leviticus when they talk about homosexuality being a sin? They want to have their cake and eat it too.

    And yes, I know Paul (in the NT) said that it's a sin, but that's not my point. The point is that Christianity today has conformed to changing times in a lot of ways. So why do they make such a big deal out of being gay?
    Last edited by Toothpicvic; 05-05-10 at 03:58 PM.

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    Re: Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Well, it's not insane, per se. A homosexual officer arresting a homophobe for running his mouth may be wrong, but it makes sense.
    Arresting someone for speech makes sense to you?

    That doesn't fly in free countries.

    Was the man inciting a riot? Exhorting the commission of a crime?

    No. He was teaching a layman the teachings of his church.

    He wouldn't have been arrested if he'd been a muslim imam.

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    Re: Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    So what about these laws then? If he's being 100% true to the Word, then he'd have to teach these too:


    ---

    Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

    Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)


    Kill Fortunetellers

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)


    Death for Hitting Dad

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)



    Death for Cursing Parents

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



    Death for Adultery

    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

    Death for Fornication

    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

    Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

    4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

    5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

    If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

    9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

    ---


    I don't agree. No Christians actually follow the Bible 100% literally anyway. If they did, then Christians would have to kill pretty much anyone who isn't a Christian and live in a fascist theocracy like Muslim Iran. If they want a respectable religion, then they'll have to learn to change with the time, just like they have been doing since the religion began. If they don't then they'll just kill off their own religion because people in this country will see how insane fundamentalism is and flock away from it in droves.

    So either way, I guess we're better off.
    Sorry, but you seem to lack sufficient understanding of the Bible to really have intelligent dialouge on this To start, you need to better understand the interrelationship between Old and New Testament (all of your quotes are Old Testament), exactly what the Old Testament was, the fulfillment of promise and the New Covenant that came with the Messiah. Its very easy to take verses out of context and think they have independant meaning. The Bible is a great book for believer and non-believer... but its pretty complex. Those that simply wish to 'data mine' the Bible are likely to be lost in the wilderness.

    Of course, Christians don't follow the Bible 100%. We are all fallen. That does not relieve us the responsibilty for doing so, nor does it allow us the option to "pick and chose"
    Last edited by upsideguy; 05-05-10 at 04:05 PM.

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    Re: Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Homophobia is an irrational fear of gays.
    No, "homophobia" is an imaginary word that's applied to anyone that makes any statement a gay can construe as negative.

    A phobia is a recognized psychological condition, such as agoraphobia, claustrophobia, acrophobia, triskadekephobia, etc.

    Calling every anti-gay comment "homophobic" is like calling a person who won't stand on the very edge of cliff "acrophobic", even perfectly sensible people won't do that.

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    Re: Christian preacher arrested for saying homosexuality is a sin

    Quote Originally Posted by Toothpicvic View Post
    Then why do Christians quote Leviticus when they talk about homosexuality being a sin? They want to have their cake and eat it too.

    And yes, I know Paul (in the NT) said that it's a sin, but that's not my point. The point is that Christianity today has conformed to changing times in a lot of ways. So why do they make such a big deal out of being gay?
    No, the existence of the Sanhedrin does not make it any more or less of a sin, only that there was due process. No one CAN be stoned or killed without the Sanhedrin, even if the sin was conducted in public.

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