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Thread: Arizona lawmakers modify immigration law

  1. #41
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    Re: Arizona lawmakers modify immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    No, you are highlighting your own liberal talking point blinders.

    Carry on, I'd never stop an adversary when they are committing suicide.
    Leave it to a right-winger to try to claim that an expansion of government powers is not an expansion of big government.

    Thats an exercise in "conservative" logic.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers modify immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    Would you care to explain exactly how this expands govt?
    Easy. It REQUIRES agents of the government to search for proof of citizenship if it has reason to suspect that the person may be undocumented.
    In fact, it allows any citizen to file suit against the government if that citizen believes that the government is not enforcing the mandate.

    The bigger question is how is this NOT an expansion of government.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers modify immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    All AZ has to do is require proof of legal residency when applying for a DL or State ID card, then require all residents, over the age of 18, to have one, and ask EVERYBODY, when stopped or detained, for their card.

    The same as they do everywhere else. No card? Then there's your reasonable suspicion no matter what color they are.

    But, it matters not. The pro-illegal's would just find something else to whine about.
    Actually, this anti-racist could possibly support such a move on a temporary basis in states where immigration is a problem. I consider the AZ law as originally written to be unquestionably racist. A law doesn't have to be racist in intent to be racist in effect. And both are equally unacceptable. It is the effect, after all (even if it 'only' psychological), that is important to me.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers modify immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Easy. It REQUIRES agents of the government to search for proof of citizenship if it has reason to suspect that the person may be undocumented.

    No expansion there, only another duty for the existing law enforcment.

    In fact, it allows any citizen to file suit against the government if that citizen believes that the government is not enforcing the mandate.

    No expansion here either. You can sue the govt 12 ways to Tues. and it does not expand in any way.


    The bigger question is how is this NOT an expansion of government.
    You are not answering the question dude. Almost like you are avoiding it.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers modify immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Actually, this anti-racist could possibly support such a move on a temporary basis in states where immigration is a problem. I consider the AZ law as originally written to be unquestionably racist.

    A law doesn't have to be racist in intent to be racist in effect. And both are equally unacceptable. It is the effect, after all (even if it 'only' psychological), that is important to me.

    What about the law as modified, the one this thread is about.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers modify immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    What about the law as modified, the one this thread is about.
    Unfortunately, I think it will be ineffective as modified, though it does have the benefit of removing the racist effect of the original draft.

    Though I didn't mention my thinking on that matter at the time, this is precisely why I responded to Captain America's idea favorably. I think his idea would have the possible benefit of being effective while simultaneously avoiding racism. Indeed, I believed that was the reason why he came up with it. I read the frustrated tone of his post as such.

    So, am I close enough to being on track? And who made you the topic gestapo, anyway?

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers modify immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Unfortunately, I think it will be ineffective as modified, though it does have the benefit of removing the racist effect of the original draft.

    Though I didn't mention my thinking on that matter at the time, this is precisely why I responded to Captain America's idea favorably. I think his idea would have the possible benefit of being effective while simultaneously avoiding racism. Indeed, I believed that was the reason why he came up with it. I read the frustrated tone of his post as such.

    So, am I close enough to being on track? And who made you the topic gestapo, anyway?
    Thanks for letting me know what you thought of the modifcations.
    I never viewed the original law as racist, though many on here did. I wondered if their opinion was formed by not understanding the wording of the law. If these changes make it easier to swallow for some folks, then good, I am glad AZ did them.
    Not trying to be the thread police, just that some here try to change the subject in an attempt to cloud the arguments, glad you are not one.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers modify immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, if you think this won't be abused then you're a fool. Also, they should take out the part where the cops can be sued for not enforcing this. That or the cops should start pestering all the white people too...just to make sure. That guy could be Irish, French, English, Russian, German, etc. Once enough white people are bothered by the law, it will change.
    I can say this, in Boston white people do get pestered namely Irish immigrants who are here illegally and when caught do get deported.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers modify immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    My bad. I meant the "Indians" from Mexico.

    There. Better Cochise?
    What's with the quotation marks and sarcasm? I'm just bringing up an important point about the racist nature of Mexico and Hispanic society more generally that many people seem to be unaware of. Indians are at the bottom of the social rung, and are usually rural peasants that are first driven to urban areas and then into the U.S.

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    Re: Arizona lawmakers modify immigration law

    Quote Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
    What's with the quotation marks and sarcasm? I'm just bringing up an important point about the racist nature of Mexico and Hispanic society more generally that many people seem to be unaware of. Indians are at the bottom of the social rung, and are usually rural peasants that are first driven to urban areas and then into the U.S.
    Well, I'm stuck in an American frame of mind. Here, we are a melting pot. No matter of WHERE your ancestors came from, once you're American, you're American. If an individual sneaks under the border wire from Mexico, unless they just passed thrugh on their way from Central America, they're Mexican to me. Don't care if they're indians, white as snow, or whatever. To me, Mexican is a nationality, not a race. It is inclusive of ALL citizens in it's nation domain.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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