• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Economists: The stimulus didn't help

What he did was not close to what Obama is doing

Which is irrelevant. You are still attacking a Kenysian while holding the name of a Kenysian. You either don't know what Kenysian is or don't know that Reagan was one.

and it's also not going to high-risk ventures that will create larger deficits in the long run.

Perhaps, but it doesn't change that Reagan engaged in Kenysian spending.

Reagan's investment created what is called "smart debt"

How is massive military expansion debt "smart?"

Nothing you said counters my point. You attack Kenysian yet have praise for a Kenysian.
 
do you know what 3 trillion dollars of deficit in the 2009 and 2010 budgets mean?

Yeah, it means Bush left us a tanked economy with drastically reduced revenue and record spending! :mrgreen:
 
w-stands-for-what's-his-name is responsible for the 09 and 10 budgets---LOL!
 
Last edited:
w-stands-for-what's-his-name is responsible for the 09 and 10 budgets---LOL!

I was partly kidding. But seriously, Bush (and Congress) is responsible for the FY09 budget. And if you hold any President responsible for the economic crash, which is the main reason for the deficits, it has to be Bush.
 
I liked this post by Lew Rockwell yesterday:

Are Keynesians Fascists?

Who can doubt it? Their economic policies are fundamentally the same as Mussolini’s or FDR’s or Peron’s—the classic combine of big-government-big business-big labor controlling and looting the rest of us, lubricated with central banking.

And as Neil Reynolds points out in the Globe & Mail:

[Keynes] was himself a disciple of dictatorships. In his essay Keynes, the Man, U.S. libertarian economist Murray Rothbard recalls that Keynes was an enthusiastic supporter in the 1930s of Sir Oswald Mosley, the founder of British fascism, and that Keynes consistently championed the fascist economic model. Writing in 1939, in the foreword to the German edition of The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, his manifesto, Mr. Keynes conceded that his economic theories “adapt more easily to the conditions of a totalitarian state … than to the conditions of free competition.”

Your comments?
;);););)
 
Economists say the stimulus didn't help - Apr. 26, 2010

Surely to be followed by a "it wasn't big enough" response from the far left. A majority of economists believe that this debt monster failed to provide the boost that was promised.

There is not far left in the U.S. It only seems that way because the right has moved all the way to fascism. By your measures, moderate Republicans are left wingers.
 
Their economic policies are fundamentally the same as Mussolini’s or FDR’s or Peron’s—the classic combine of big-government-big business-big labor controlling and looting the rest of us, lubricated with central banking.

Ludicrous.

[Keynes] was himself a disciple of dictatorships. In his essay Keynes, the Man, U.S. libertarian economist Murray Rothbard recalls that Keynes was an enthusiastic supporter in the 1930s of Sir Oswald Mosley, the founder of British fascism, and that Keynes consistently championed the fascist economic model. Writing in 1939, in the foreword to the German edition of The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, his manifesto, Mr. Keynes conceded that his economic theories “adapt more easily to the conditions of a totalitarian state … than to the conditions of free competition.”

1. An observation about dictatorships does not make him a "disciple" of them.
2. Keynesians aren't Keynes. This is a lame attempt at guilt by association.

This is the kind of paranoid, mouth-foaming stuff that passes for thinking by the extreme right these days.
 
I liked this post by Lew Rockwell yesterday:

Are Keynesians Fascists?

Who can doubt it? Their economic policies are fundamentally the same as Mussolini’s or FDR’s or Peron’s—the classic combine of big-government-big business-big labor controlling and looting the rest of us, lubricated with central banking.

And as Neil Reynolds points out in the Globe & Mail:

[Keynes] was himself a disciple of dictatorships. In his essay Keynes, the Man, U.S. libertarian economist Murray Rothbard recalls that Keynes was an enthusiastic supporter in the 1930s of Sir Oswald Mosley, the founder of British fascism, and that Keynes consistently championed the fascist economic model. Writing in 1939, in the foreword to the German edition of The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, his manifesto, Mr. Keynes conceded that his economic theories “adapt more easily to the conditions of a totalitarian state … than to the conditions of free competition.”

Your comments?
;);););)

You have no idea what Fascism is, or what elements define it. Please stop pissing on the English language, where words have meanings.
 
pew poll, yesterday's politico

SIXTY TWO PERCENT OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE do not believe the SEVEN HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SEVEN BILLION DOLLAR stimulus (that obscene s-word no one in the party is allowed ever again to utter) did any good

Poll: Most Americans think the stimulus didn't help - Andy Barr - POLITICO.com

33% believe what obama now ubiquitously refers to as THE RECOVERY ACT (LOL!) actually worked

FORTY TWO percent of DEMS deem it a dud

include the economists surveyed and we're talking consensus

such a waste
 
pew poll, yesterday's politico

SIXTY TWO PERCENT OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE do not believe the SEVEN HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SEVEN BILLION DOLLAR stimulus (that obscene s-word no one in the party is allowed ever again to utter) did any good

Poll: Most Americans think the stimulus didn't help - Andy Barr - POLITICO.com

33% believe what obama now ubiquitously refers to as THE RECOVERY ACT (LOL!) actually worked

FORTY TWO percent of DEMS deem it a dud

include the economists surveyed and we're talking consensus

such a waste

The success of the stimulus must be retrospective. Not enought time has passed yet.

According to the Obama Administration, the economy doesn't have to prosper for the stimulus to have worked. It only needs to stop getting worse.

In Obama's view, the only possible way for the stimulus to fail is if it was less economical than allowing economic developments to take their natural course.

In America's view, the only possible way for the stimulus to succeed is if it considerably improves the quality of their lives and finances.
 
In America's view, the only possible way for the stimulus to succeed is if it considerably improves the quality of their lives and finances.

you got that right

it cost SEVEN HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SEVEN BILLION DOLLARS

according to obama, for the S-WORD to succeed, unemployment must CAP at eight percent

he's had plenty of time

it just aint workin

especially politically

it's empirical

sorry
 
you got that right

it cost SEVEN HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SEVEN BILLION DOLLARS

according to obama, for the S-WORD to succeed, unemployment must CAP at eight percent

he's had plenty of time

it just aint workin

especially politically

it's empirical

sorry

Consider the Great Depression.

If the stimulus was the difference between 1/3rd of the population being unemployed for going on thirty years and our current situation, would you have favored the stimulus?

More to the point, would you have criticized Obama for not ennacting the stimulus, if the economy had tanked so heavily?
 
Last edited:
ask the 62%

ask 42% of dems
 
ask the 62%

ask 42% of dems

You have to know by now I'm pretty hostile to populism and opinion polls as a means of finding out what the right policy is.
 
Last edited:
LOL!

you presume a great deal

i really have no idea who you are

you sound like a thousand others
 
I liked this post by Lew Rockwell yesterday:

Are Keynesians Fascists?

Who can doubt it? Their economic policies are fundamentally the same as Mussolini’s or FDR’s or Peron’s—the classic combine of big-government-big business-big labor controlling and looting the rest of us, lubricated with central banking.

And as Neil Reynolds points out in the Globe & Mail:

[Keynes] was himself a disciple of dictatorships. In his essay Keynes, the Man, U.S. libertarian economist Murray Rothbard recalls that Keynes was an enthusiastic supporter in the 1930s of Sir Oswald Mosley, the founder of British fascism, and that Keynes consistently championed the fascist economic model. Writing in 1939, in the foreword to the German edition of The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, his manifesto, Mr. Keynes conceded that his economic theories “adapt more easily to the conditions of a totalitarian state … than to the conditions of free competition.”

Your comments?
;);););)

If Ronald Reagan was a fascist then yes Keynisans are fascists
 
LOL!

you presume a great deal

i really have no idea who you are

you sound like a thousand others

Counter put down or high road?

High road.

Anyway, what those people think about the effectiveness of the policy is meaningless to me.
 
Last edited:
The stimulus did and didn't help - it just depends on who you ask.
 
pew poll, yesterday's politico

SIXTY TWO PERCENT OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE do not believe the SEVEN HUNDRED AND EIGHTY SEVEN BILLION DOLLAR stimulus (that obscene s-word no one in the party is allowed ever again to utter) did any good

Poll: Most Americans think the stimulus didn't help - Andy Barr - POLITICO.com

33% believe what obama now ubiquitously refers to as THE RECOVERY ACT (LOL!) actually worked

FORTY TWO percent of DEMS deem it a dud

include the economists surveyed and we're talking consensus

such a waste

So by such a measure, Bush is the worst US president ever? :2wave:

Oh partisans. Polls are your friend when they support your position and not when they don't.

Honesty level: 0
 
So by such a measure, Bush is the worst US president ever?

who's bush?

meanwhile, FORTY TWO PERCENT of DEMS deem IT a dud

ie, that's an awful lot of dems

no wonder no one in the admin is allowed to use the s-word

it's obscene
 
Actually, in some areas, the stimulus is huge. I manage a small HVAC business in Houston. Although Houston has not been hit by the recession as hard as other cities, there has still been some fallout, as sales were down in both 2008 and the first half of 2009. The stimulus has had a huge effect, as sales for the first 4 months of 2010 are twice what he had from January - July of 2009. As a result, we hired 2 more technicians and another helper this year.

However, that being said, the stimulus cannot go on forever, and when it ends, at the end of this year, I expect things to return to normal levels, meaning that, if there has not been some serious upward movement in the economy this year, then I have no doubt that we will be back in the doldrums next year, and probably laying off workers again.
 
Back
Top Bottom