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Economists: The stimulus didn't help

1984 said:
The stimulus obviously helped, but it helped government employees and unions mostly - as this poll indicates, the private sector had little use for it; the multiplier effect served to increase aggregate demand, as Don pointed out, but there is no way to accurately or precisely quantify that effect without making some assumptions and inferences.

To me, it was a poorly constructed spending project; it was nothing more than a slush fund for the private sector, really. A more targeted and temporary stimulus with a larger emphasis on tax breaks and private sector incentives would have worked better.
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The stimulus was about a third tax breaks, I assume that wasn't enough?
 
1984 said:
This is the main failing of Keynesian economics, i.e., it is overly concerned with short run economic conditions - it fails utterly in the long run.
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Keynsian stimulus isn't meant to be a "long term" solution in the first place. Strawman.
 
Dezaad said:
Keynsian stimulus isn't meant to be a "long term" solution in the first place. Strawman.
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Don't tell it to Galbraith.

Why is it then that the Socialists of America Party (SAPs) have a one track economic mind?

.
 
Dezaad said:
Keynsian stimulus isn't meant to be a "long term" solution in the first place. Strawman.
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You completely missed his point. He was saying that when Keynesian should have taken a back seat, the powers that be - under coercion of the constituants - kept it going.

Every economist knows that classicism addresses the long run and Keynesian policies address the short run. What some people fail to realize is when to switch from one back to the other. A powerful, capitalist state should treat classic economics like vegetables and Keynesian economics like cake. Unfortunately, the dumber the people, the more they just revert to base instinct to eat all the cake they can shove down their throats while going "yucky" at veggies, even though it creates a lazy, fat, early-death populace.

Sure, everyone loves cake. It requires severe moderation though, just like Keynesian-based legislature.
 
Gipper said:
You completely missed his point. He was saying that when Keynesian should have taken a back seat, the powers that be - under coercion of the constituants - kept it going.

Every economist knows that classicism addresses the long run and Keynesian policies address the short run. What some people fail to realize is when to switch from one back to the other. A powerful, capitalist state should treat classic economics like vegetables and Keynesian economics like cake. Unfortunately, the dumber the people, the more they just revert to base instinct to eat all the cake they can shove down their throats while going "yucky" at veggies, even though it creates a lazy, fat, early-death populace.

Sure, everyone loves cake. It requires severe moderation though, just like Keynesian-based legislature.
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"People are too stupid to know what's good for them". Thanks, gipper
 
Gipper said:
Sure, everyone loves cake. It requires severe moderation though, just like Keynesian-based legislature.
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You left out an important part. There is no reason to give a 500lb diabetic any cake because "short term gain" leads to long term ruin.
 
Stimulus fund job benefits exaggerated, review finds - The Boston Globe

Associated Press Online Video Network

Many California jobs 'saved' by stimulus funds weren't in jeopardy - Sacramento News - Local and Breaking Sacramento News | Sacramento Bee

After a flurry of stimulus spending, questionable projects pile up | Washington Examiner

$2.3 million in federal stimulus money is going to pay for Tampa Bay area beauty school tuition - St. Petersburg Times

U.S. government nervous about stimulus fraud, scams | Reuters

Feds: Stimulus money sent to 4,000 cons - BostonHerald.com

SPIN METER: 'Help Wanted' counting stimulus jobs

Key Quotes from Biden on the Stimulus - The Page by Mark Halperin - TIME.com

Stimulus fraud could hit $50 billion - MarketWatch

Stimulus funds going to slashed programs - USATODAY.com

Phantom zip codes also found in Virginia | Washington Examiner

Did stimulus money go to 'phantom' districts in Minnesota? | StarTribune.com

Sites tracking other states' stimulus funds also show phantom districts - The Santa Fe New Mexican

the portrait of political incompetence, msm's from all around the country---BUSTED!

indeed, the stimulus was a staggeringly false step
 
I never believed the ARRA would bring this country out of it's economic decline, but I certainly do know it has had a positive impact on this nation's overall economy. I know plenty of people who were either able to retain their jobs or actually were able to find work as a direct result of stimulas money.

I did have a positive result despite all the negative spin the right tries to put on it. Now, it's true that Pres. Obama put his foot in his mouth when he made claims (or projections) that clearly didn't pan out, i.e., the unemployment rate would remain at or below 8% or that the stimulas would creat X-amount of jobs. Nonetheless, it has had positive results. Those who don't want to see it's positive net results no matter how small will simply choose to ignore them and no matter how hard you try to convince them otherwise, they simply will refuse to believe the statistics. So, why even try?
 
Gipper said:
You completely missed his point. He was saying that when Keynesian should have taken a back seat, the powers that be - under coercion of the constituants - kept it going.

Every economist knows that classicism addresses the long run and Keynesian policies address the short run. What some people fail to realize is when to switch from one back to the other. A powerful, capitalist state should treat classic economics like vegetables and Keynesian economics like cake. Unfortunately, the dumber the people, the more they just revert to base instinct to eat all the cake they can shove down their throats while going "yucky" at veggies, even though it creates a lazy, fat, early-death populace.

Sure, everyone loves cake. It requires severe moderation though, just like Keynesian-based legislature.
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Except that this thread is concerned with a time period where we need cake, so if that was his point, then it really is a moot one.

Other than that, I have no bone to pick with what you are saying, in general.
 
Taylor said:
Surely to be followed by a "it wasn't big enough" response from the far left.
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And if economists say it wasn't big enough, will you accept that like you accept this?
 
stekim said:
You left out an important part. There is no reason to give a 500lb diabetic any cake because "short term gain" leads to long term ruin.
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If a diabetic is having insulin shock, cake is just what he needs, otherwise he won't make it to the long-term.
 
The Prof said:
the word "said" is what obama did

LOL!
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LOL!

Even when

I link to

the very document

that you base

LOL!

your claim

on

LOL!

you still

insist on

LOL

making stuff up

LOL!
 
makeout hobo said:
"People are too stupid to know what's good for them". Thanks, gipper
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It's correct a lot more than you want to believe.

stekim said:
You left out an important part. There is no reason to give a 500lb diabetic any cake because "short term gain" leads to long term ruin.
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Even someone morbidly obese that's on a diet could get a slice of cake once in a while. Having said that, I was addressing a time when the man was relatively healthy and in shape, before he gouged on cake.

Keynesian economics has its use, but just incredibly limited. Classical economics does not always fix its own messes, or sometimes takes far too long to be pushed along by the "invisible hand". Intervention is sometimes necessary. Granted, not in today's political and economic world, but in other times and places, yes.

Dezaad said:
Except that this thread is concerned with a time period where we need cake, so if that was his point, then it really is a moot one.
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That was it. It sounded like he believes that we're in a vegetable time, in which I would agree with him.
 
misterman said:
And if economists say it wasn't big enough, will you accept that like you accept this?
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If you come across such a story, feel free to create a thread.
 
misterman said:
If a diabetic is having insulin shock, cake is just what he needs, otherwise he won't make it to the long-term.
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That's why I left the shock part out!
 
MrVicchio said:
Except when they promote your cause of course.

After all, aren't you one of those folks that champion the "Consensus Science"? That's just an opinion poll...
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The fact that conservatives still confuse opinion and science is always amusing.
 
Gipper said:
Keynesian economics has its use, but just incredibly limited. Classical economics does not always fix its own messes, or sometimes takes far too long to be pushed along by the "invisible hand". Intervention is sometimes necessary. Granted, not in today's political and economic world, but in other times and places, yes.
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That was my point. Look, when you have a massive debt load you don't borrow $1 trillion to stimulate an economy that will get better regardless. It's a very tiny short term benefit for a very long term pain.
 
donsutherland1 said:
IMO, neither the current White House budget plan nor the emerging Senate alternative provide credible fiscal consolidation from 2011 onward
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i'm afraid the phenomenon you fulminate against is much larger than your mere opinion
 
Deuce said:
The fact that conservatives still confuse opinion and science is always amusing.
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The fact you ARE confusing science with opinion is better still.
 
the makeout hobo said:
"People are too stupid to know what's good for them". Thanks, gipper
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No, people are ruthlessly self-interested and will act in a manner that benefits them, even if it is detrimental to society or others.
 
Redress said:
you still insist on making stuff up
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LOL!

tell it to jerry nadler

tell it to tapper and travers

tell it to the post

Before passage of the stimulus bill, the Obama administration had predicted that unemployment would peak at 8 percent before beginning to abate this fall.
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Lingering Unemployment Likely to Challenge Obama and the Nation - washingtonpost.com

In January, the incoming administration predicted in a white paper study that without a huge stimulus package, unemployment would reach just over 8%, and would be contained at under 8% with a stimulus package.
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President Obama Predicts Unemployment Will Hit 10% This Year - Political Punch
 
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