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Thread: Economists: The stimulus didn't help

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    Re: Economists: The stimulus didn't help

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Interesting how the same people that called Bush a liar ignore the Obama lies. Not one Obama supporter will answer direct questions or respond to posts like yours but instead will ignore your posts and continue to buy the Obama rhetoric ignoring what he is doing.
    Probably because they know it's a farce, that Obama can't do anything but suggest, that the Congress makes all the laws.

    ricksfolly

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    Re: Economists: The stimulus didn't help

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    Probably because they know it's a farce, that Obama can't do anything but suggest, that the Congress makes all the laws.

    ricksfolly
    Except of course when Bush was in the WH, Democrats controlled Congress then it was all Bush's fault, right? Listened to Obama still in campaign mode?

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    Re: Economists: The stimulus didn't help

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This does not mean the stimulus did not help. In fact, it suggests that the stimulus did something, since 27 % reported an effect.
    Ya it saved jobs that would have been lost otherwise. Had to reinvent the wheel on that one Biden did.

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    Re: Economists: The stimulus didn't help

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Except of course when Bush was in the WH, Democrats controlled Congress then it was all Bush's fault, right? Listened to Obama still in campaign mode?
    >>

    I have no anamosity toward Bush or any other president. They did what they had to do to keep their political bases together. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.

    ricksfolly

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    Re: Economists: The stimulus didn't help

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    >>

    I have no anamosity toward Bush or any other president. They did what they had to do to keep their political bases together. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.

    ricksfolly
    Actually your point was right, it is the President AND the Congress that created the mess with more emphasis on what the Congress does that drives the economy. The President can only request.

    Today however we have both a Democrat Controlled Congress and a Democrat President. the Democrat President is requesting and Congress is authorizing and that is generating the results we have right now which isn't a pretty picture.

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    Re: Economists: The stimulus didn't help

    I looked on calculated risk and today we have an atlanta fed report showing:

    "The major contributor to income growth during the past several months has been transfer payments."



    Monthly Increase, Billions (SAAR)
    Jan-10 Feb-10 Mar-10

    Government Transfer Payments

    Old-age, survivors, disability, health insurance benefits
    -1.5, 3.1, 5.1
    Government unemployment insurance benefits
    -6.6, -2.2, 11.8

    Other
    33.7, 6.4, 7.8

    Reduction in Personal saving
    55.1, 54, 28.2

    Total Saving Reduction and Transfer Payments
    80.7, 61.3, 52.9

    Increase in Personal outlays
    34.4, 58.3, 60.6

    Just looking at this I can see that the main reason for an increase in consumption was a lower savings rate and government transfer payments. These are two things the stimulus was supposed to do, how is it not helping?
    Last edited by drz-400; 05-06-10 at 06:56 PM.

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    Re: Economists: The stimulus didn't help

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    I looked on calculated risk and today we have an atlanta fed report showing:

    "The major contributor to income growth during the past several months has been transfer payments."



    Monthly Increase, Billions (SAAR) Jan-10 Feb-10 Mar-10

    Government Transfer Payments

    Old-age, survivors, disability, health insurance benefits -1.5 3.1 5.1

    Government unemployment insurance benefits -6.6 -2.2 11.8

    Other 33.7 6.4 7.8

    Reduction in Personal saving 55.1 54 28.2

    Total Saving Reduction and Transfer Payments 80.7 61.3 52.9

    Increase in Personal outlays 34.4 58.3 60.6

    Just looking at this I can see that the main reason for an increase in consumption was a lower savings rate and government transfer payments. These are two things the stimulus was supposed to do, how is it not helping?
    Has it done what you expected it to do and what Obama said it would do? Think that a lower savings rate is a good thing? Guess it is if you believe in a bigger role for the govt. but is that really what you want?

    In addition please explain to me why this 800 billion stimulus plan had to be passed immediately and we now know that only 1/3 of the stimulus has been spent almost 1 1/2 yrs later? Even though that is the case the debt will be 1.6 trillion this year after a 1.4 trillion debt last year. Obama will add more debt in two years than Reagan did in 8.

    By definition a stimulus is to be a short term boost to the economy, not a slush fund for Democrat initiatives. 1 1/2 years later is not short term and unemployment exceeded what Obama said it would.

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    Re: Economists: The stimulus didn't help

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Has it done what you expected it to do and what Obama said it would do? Think that a lower savings rate is a good thing? Guess it is if you believe in a bigger role for the govt. but is that really what you want?

    In addition please explain to me why this 800 billion stimulus plan had to be passed immediately and we now know that only 1/3 of the stimulus has been spent almost 1 1/2 yrs later? Even though that is the case the debt will be 1.6 trillion this year after a 1.4 trillion debt last year. Obama will add more debt in two years than Reagan did in 8.

    By definition a stimulus is to be a short term boost to the economy, not a slush fund for Democrat initiatives. 1 1/2 years later is not short term and unemployment exceeded what Obama said it would.
    Your correct, they lowballed their estimates, but the output/unemployment gap has become much larger than most models based on historical data would have suggested at the time. I don't really care what Obama said unemployment was going to be, all I care is that the stimulus has helped, and it seems it has. The debt will be a problem, no doubt, and that massive debt was not brought about by short term spending, but rather long term issues that need to be adressed. I guess short term and long term can be subjective, but I would call SS, medicare, and military type spending long term since we will be doing that for decades into the future rather than 2-3 years. I think that getting the economy on track is an important first step towards fiscal sustainablity though, because a recession will bring about inevitable defecits.

    Also, without the transfer payments, think about how low the saving rate would be (or consumption since maybe some people would not want to spend that much). Obviously the government cannot continue to supplement everyones income at this magnitude, or people cannot continue to fuel consumption by taking on more and more debt. That is why spurring economic growth is so important, so the market and jobs can grow peoples income. This is just an even greater case for using stimulus to boost the economy.
    Last edited by drz-400; 05-06-10 at 07:13 PM.

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    Re: Economists: The stimulus didn't help

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    I'm surprised at you Prof. Surely You must know that Obama can only suggest and appeal to the crowd. Congress enacts all the policies and laws.

    ricksfolly
    oh, please

    popular presidents INTIMIDATE the opposition into coming over

    these days, opposition says NO and the electorate rewards it with TWENTY FIVE POINT swings in its favor

    the klutz, in contrast, can't even carry his own caucus

    Senate Democrats to W.H.: Drop cap and trade - Lisa Lerer - POLITICO.com

    Obama: There 'may not be an appetite' for immigration bill this year - The Oval: Tracking the Obama presidency

    Rifts emerge among Dems over federal powers on consumer financial regs - TheHill.com

    it's cuz he perpetually picks pigs to push which are so unpopular

    he's a putz

    did you see the voter turnout in tuesday's primaries in 3 ultra important states?

    Dem Turnout Falls Off A Cliff - Hotline On Call

    red representation, in colorful contrast, was WAY UP

    worry

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    Re: Economists: The stimulus didn't help

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    I don't really care what Obama said unemployment was going to be
    most americans do, he's sposed to LOOK like he knows what he's doing

    Democrat: Obama should not have said unemployment would peak at 8 percent - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

    Obey slams administration for stimulus reporting errors - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

    unemployment's sposed to go DOWN

    he's incompetent

    are you following the goings on in europe?

    did you see the dow this week?

    jitters, jitters, jitters

    the same, by the way, is happening in our airports

    everyone's about to jump outta their seats cuz someone dropped a suitcase

    this is what ineptitude at the top produces, naturally

    IN TIMES LIKE THESE

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