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Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

Oh.

So you agree that asking suspect for ID isn't unconstitutional.

So what's your problem with this new law again?

That I doubt the actual intent and practice is going to be as described regarding ID

Why make a new law that duplicates (part of it) what was in the law previously?
 
Yes yes it is

It is as racist as the KKK putting burning cross's on black families lawns (just because they were black

Or as racist as a Japanese family not wanting thier daughter to marry a European because they are not Japanese

That's ridiculous. You are simply intelligently differentiating and targeting a group for inquiry, but no loss occurs. Ignoring race when you know 80% of illegal aliens are hispanic is the real stupidity.
 
The answer is that he can't stop them and ask them until he's already stopped them for suspicion of some other crime.

When a cop stops someone with probable cause, what's their first question?

Oh, yeah, their first question is "let's see some ID".

So, it seems that actually ASKING a suspect for his ID CAN'T POSSIBLY be a violation of any Constitutional standard, since it's SOP in the first damn place.

ID alone isn't proof of immigration status.
 
That I doubt the actual intent and practice is going to be as described regarding ID

Your unsubstantiated doubts are not logical proof.

Also, no, racism wasn't the reason for the law. The fact that Arizona is overrun with illegal aliens was the basis for the law.

What part of the meaning of the word "illegal" is eluding your understanding?
 
Well, read the text of the law and let us know.

That clearly is a violation of civil liberties, since any American should be able to hire any other American or lawful resident for temporary work. But there's nothing with requiring that such laborers provide proof of legal residence.

It also bars people from soliciting work or hiring day laborers off the street.
Obama criticizes Arizona immigration law - latimes.com

This was discussed in length here on DP although I can not find the thead ATM
 
ID alone isn't proof of immigration status.

And if you'd bothered to read the law, you'd see that it states that ID issued by other states that require proof of legal residency prior to the issuance of that ID is sufficient proof for the purpose of this Arizona law.

That people CAN get ID in this nation without presenting proof of legal residency is a problem that the federal government refuses to address because the politicians want the American citizen to be diluted.

Why count Invaders on the Census?

So the politicians can re-draw districts and gain seats that dilute the votes of American citizens.

The question you're not demanding an answer to is why your elected representative is giving your country away. You don't seem to care much about that.

As a US veteran, I care very much about that.
 
That's ridiculous. You are simply intelligently differentiating and targeting a group for inquiry, but no loss occurs. Ignoring race when you know 80% of illegal aliens are hispanic is the real stupidity.

If the Canadian police targetted white people to show ID on a regular basis while not asking asian, African etc for thier ID, white people would be disciminated against due to their race. Not because of something the individual did. Hence it is racist

For a policy to be racist does not mean a loss has to have occured
 
Your unsubstantiated doubts are not logical proof.

Also, no, racism wasn't the reason for the law. The fact that Arizona is overrun with illegal aliens was the basis for the law.

What part of the meaning of the word "illegal" is eluding your understanding?

So why did Arizona pass a law that duplicates what a law does already?

Where did I say racism was the reason for the law?

I have said racial profiling is racist and it is
 
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If the Canadian police targetted white people to show ID on a regular basis while not asking asian, African etc for thier ID, white people would be disciminated against due to their race. Not because of something the individual did. Hence it is racist

For a policy to be racist does not mean a loss has to have occured

White people would not be discriminated against, only targeted. It would not be racist.
 
White people would not be discriminated against, only targeted. It would not be racist.

What the heck do you think disciminated against means?

I would be discriminated against by the police to be. My freedom of action would be reduced in comparison to non whites. Ie discriminated due to races
 
So why did Arizona pass a law that duplicates what a law does already?

Becuase it grants the police the authority to HOLD suspected Invaders, something they were not formerly able to do.

Where did I say racism was the reason for the law?

All people opposed to this law are fondling their race card.

I have said racial profiling is racist and it is

Racial profiling isn't inherently racist.

It's racial profiling to target males between 20 and 50 hailing from muslim dominated nations because that's demographic of your typical terrorist. That's not racism, that's common sense.

It's not racial profiling to ask a hispanic who's been caught committing another crime to present proof of his legal residency in this nation, that's common sense. Also, the bill does not single out hispanics.

You could try reading it.
 
So why did Arizona pass a law that duplicates what a law does already?

Where did I say racism was the reason for the law?

I have said racial profiling is racist and it is
Racism is when one believes their race is superior to another. Profiling for illegals (lawbreakers) is NOT racism.
 
What the heck do you think disciminated against means?

I would be discriminated against by the police to be. My freedom of action would be reduced in comparison to non whites. Ie discriminated due to races

Why is it racial discrimination? You aren't losing privileges by being checked. No loss of a job or failure to get an opportunity to achieve your objectives because of your race, it is just being targeted for inspection because you fit the profile.

If a white male 25 to 35 years old with a leather jacket driving a rusted early model blue Toyota Celica rapes a woman in an alley and the police are called, they are going to profile. "Be on the lookout for a white male 25 to 35 years old with a leather jacket driving a rusted early model blue Toyota Celica". Is this racial profiling? Age profiling? Attire profiling? Transportation profiling? Is any of this wrong? There may be several guys fitting this description, but they didn't do it. Should they be investigated?

Now what if he is Mexican or black? Isn't this profiling?

Is racial discrimination racist?
 
Racism is when one believes their race is superior to another. Profiling for illegals (lawbreakers) is NOT racism.

Fine it is racial discrimination then

Profiling by stopping every hispanic person and checking their citizenship status is racial discrimination

It is discriminating against a specific ethnic group purely because of their ethnicity
 
Profiling by stopping every hispanic person and checking their citizenship status is racial discrimination

Good thing the law doesn't order the cops to stop every hispanic-looking person then, isn't it.

How many other strawmen you got hiding there?
 
Why is it racial discrimination? You aren't losing privileges by being checked. No loss of a job or failure to get an opportunity to achieve your objectives because of your race, it is just being targeted for inspection because you fit the profile.

If a white male 25 to 35 years old with a leather jacket driving a rusted early model blue Toyota Celica rapes a woman in an alley and the police are called, they are going to profile. "Be on the lookout for a white male 25 to 35 years old with a leather jacket driving a rusted early model blue Toyota Celica". Is this racial profiling? Age profiling? Attire profiling? Transportation profiling? Is any of this wrong? There may be several guys fitting this description, but they didn't do it. Should they be investigated?

Now what if he is Mexican or black? Isn't this profiling?

Is racial discrimination racist?


It's sexist profiling. They should be searching for women rapists, too. Maybe Janet Reno is lurking somewhere in the neighborhood.
 
Why is it racial discrimination? You aren't losing privileges by being checked. No loss of a job or failure to get an opportunity to achieve your objectives because of your race, it is just being targeted for inspection because you fit the profile.
If I am stopped on my way to work purely because of my ethnicity it is racial discrimination. My freedom of action (liberty) is imparied compared to others
If a white male 25 to 35 years old with a leather jacket driving a rusted early model blue Toyota Celica rapes a woman in an alley and the police are called, they are going to profile. "Be on the lookout for a white male 25 to 35 years old with a leather jacket driving a rusted early model blue Toyota Celica". Is this racial profiling? Age profiling? Attire profiling? Transportation profiling? Is any of this wrong? There may be several guys fitting this description, but they didn't do it. Should they be investigated?

Now what if he is Mexican or black? Isn't this profiling?

Is racial discrimination racist?

It would not be racist to be looking for a specific criminal in the area in which the crime is believed to have taken place. Meaning checking for a period of time people who match the description of the suspect would not be racist no matter which ethnicity it was

But stopping people over a non specific crime (ie illegal immigrants) where they do not have a specific suspect in mind (ie hispanic 24-30 years of age wearing a white T shirt ) but a general suspect (ie hispanic and all hispanics) and targetting all hispanics for extra enforcement is racial discrimination
 
Good thing the law doesn't order the cops to stop every hispanic-looking person then, isn't it.

How many other strawmen you got hiding there?

Good thing were not talking about this specific law when in the last few points then.

But discussing whether or not racial profiling is racial discrimination
 
It's sexist profiling. They should be searching for women rapists, too. Maybe Janet Reno is lurking somewhere in the neighborhood.

I thought she raped alligators...is that illegal? :mrgreen:
 
If I am stopped on my way to work purely because of my ethnicity it is racial discrimination. My freedom of action (liberty) is imparied compared to others


It would not be racist to be looking for a specific criminal in the area in which the crime is believed to have taken place. Meaning checking for a period of time people who match the description of the suspect would not be racist no matter which ethnicity it was

But stopping people over a non specific crime (ie illegal immigrants) where they do not have a specific suspect in mind (ie hispanic 24-30 years of age wearing a white T shirt ) but a general suspect (ie hispanic and all hispanics) and targetting all hispanics for extra enforcement is racial discrimination

Yeah, I just don't see that.

And did you say why racial discrimination is racist?
 
Yeah, I just don't see that.

And did you say why racial discrimination is racist?

If I beat up chinese people every day, just for fun, but not because I think I am superior to them am I racist or not?
 
If I beat up chinese people every day, just for fun, but not because I think I am superior to them am I racist or not?

So you are comparing beating up a race with checking their ID? One violates the harm principle, the other does not.
 
If I am stopped on my way to work purely because of my ethnicity it is racial discrimination. My freedom of action (liberty) is imparied compared to others

How about if you get back to the Arizona law, which requires a probable cause for stopping a person BEFORE and the requires the establishment of probable cause that the person is an Invader before checking his status with the ICE?

Hmm...? No more strawmen. I'm racist against dried grass people.
 
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