Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

UtahBill said:

Same way they did before this law was signed...somebody called the cops and the cops responded and apprehend someone, and that someone can't speak english...
The law abiding illegals will be the last deported. If you don't cause trouble, you will likely be ignored by everyone, including the cops.

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That's not true. Sheriff Joe's sweeps are extremely well known.

Even if a few innocent Hispanic people are inconvenienced by having to show their ID doesn't make this bill a bad thing. Laws exist to bring about justice and safety for people. They don't exist to make everyone comfortable and prevent feelings from being hurt. In Tennessee we have a law where if a cop pulls someone over the lane next to his car must be evacuated or you'll have to pay a serious fine. They call it the "no clip" law because a cop was hit by an oncoming car in the lane next to him. Now, this law is good for the safety of law enforcement, but bad for traffic and commuters. I commute roughly 25 miles to get to school (each way) and with morning rush hour it takes me between 40-50 minutes to get there. Cops ticket during rush hour on the interstate, and that usually means that the right lane (rarely the far left lane) will be closed. This forces everyone in the right lane to merge over and cause a bottle-neck effect for traffic. This alone causes me to sit in traffic for roughly 10-15 minutes because everything gets backed up. Now, I am severely inconvenienced by this law along with thousands of other people who may now be late for work because of the traffic inconvenience. Should Tennessee repeal this law because it inconveniences people? No, they shouldn't (although the cops could at least show some grace during rush hour ). Law abiding citizens have nothing to fear. Just because this may mildly inconvenience a few Hispanic Spanish speakers doesn't mean the law should be repealed. There will be inconveniences for the innocent during the pursuit for justice, and for justice sake we all just have to deal with it. It's all apart of being a law abiding citizen.

rivrrat said:

Where is that written in the law? I saw no mention of skin color

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There is nothing in the law that bases is on skin color. But the people who it affects the most are those with brown skin. If you white, you will not be stopped to check you immigration status. If you are brown or dark colored, you will be stopped to make sure that your legal status is okay. The attitude that is does not have anything to do with skin color is lacking in merit. The writer of the bill is a bigot.

Okay, lets change the scenario that would send the NRA, conservatives, right wingers, gun owners, etc ballistic. I am a gun owner, so I support the 2nd admendment, so don't start bashing me about being anti gun. We know that it is our right to bear arms. I have a right to have a gun, I own one, and I decide to wear it unconcealed. Now should a police officer be able to stop me to check that I can lawfully possess the gun? Hey no harm to foul, I am legal. Would it be alright for the police to stop you or check your house or check your gone just because they believe it might be possible that you have the gun illegally? The probable cause is their belief nothing more. It would be wrong. If that happen tomorrow, there would be a revolution, gun owners would be pissed.

digsbe said:

Skin color won't matter. If anything what would stick out the most is if the person speaks Spanish and knows little to know English, and in that case it would strongly suggest that they are illegal. I believe legal immigrant have to pass an English comprehension test. I think the race/discrimination card is just being played to try and make the Republicans seem racist or to hurt support for the bill. If 95% of the illegals are Hispanic then that doesn't mean that the law is racist.

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No it is not racist because it enforces illegal immigration. It is racist because it was writen by known racist.

danarhea said:

That's not true. Sheriff Joe's sweeps are extremely well known.

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Law enforcement makes arrests mostly on complaints. If a citizen files a criminal complaint that involves illegals, the sheriff MUST act.
Would you have it any other way?

TBone said:

No it is not racist because it enforces illegal immigration. It is racist because it was writen by known racist.

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No it wasn't. Are you trying to say that Republicans are racist?

cholla said:

Hi
This is Cholla's wife.
I believe Willcox already lost one battle over immigration with Sheriff Joe.
You have to live here to get it.
At my daughters school 60% of the children are on FREE lunches and breakfasts. This is a Federal program, so although you don't live here you get to pay for it. The Hispanic population at the school is very worried as a large percentage are Illegal, our Principal is Hispanic but knows that our school funding has been cut because there is not enough money to educate children whose parents are not contributing to the State.
One simple example of what illegals cost we the citizens of Arizona.
My 21 year old neice's car was hit and totaled, the car that hit her raced into a parking lot where 5 Hispanic men got out of the car and took off running. The car had no current registration was not insured, they caught the driver as he was injured, he was transported to the hospital and treated, then arrested as he was in the country illegally. Who paid for the ambulance ? The medical care ? My neices deductable ? Her insurance paid her for her car, how does that work how does the insurance company recoup that loss ? Our insurance rate are out of this world . This type of thing happens every day in Phoenix. We bear the costs, and now we are broke, and our children are at risk of being in classes of 30 to 40 in elementary school, who could teach to that crowd.

We are so happy this bill was signed

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Wow, I work in law enforcement in Arizona and this happens daily. BUT, it does not only happen where illegal aliens are the criminals. Hey in AZ we had a catholic bishop run over a man in his vehicle and he took off before the police came to the scene. Hey we have rich anglos kill their spouses and kids. In our jails sit many legal citizens. A lot of them are white.

On the reservations in AZ, which are predominantly native americans, the income level is real low, is this caused by the hispanics?

Illegal immigration is wrong, it costs us daily, BUT it is a FEDERAL problem. GET AFTER OBAMA, NAPOLOTANO, KYLE and MCCAIN. Don't use the money we need to school our kids and protect our communities to fix an issue that the feds refuse to fix. BTW this goes back to every prez since Carter.

digsbe said:

No it wasn't. Are you trying to say that Republicans are racist?

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Nope, I am say Russell Pearce who wrote it is a racist. Many republicans are hispanics, black, white, green, and purple.

digsbe said:

.... If 95% of the illegals are Hispanic then that doesn't mean that the law is racist.

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Oh but, you know that they will bill it as such! Just like 95+% of terrorists are arab muslims. If you try to call it such, you will be vilified as racist!

The same, I might add, if you vehemently disagree with Obama's policies, you are, no doubt, a racist.

It is the game they play when they have no other arguement.

UtahBill said:

Law enforcement makes arrests mostly on complaints. If a citizen files a criminal complaint that involves illegals, the sheriff MUST act.
Would you have it any other way?

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You live here, and you know that Sheriff Joe is only trying to get publicity. If he did his job and shut his mouth, and if he was not posing with neo nazis, we would not say anything.

Last week, Phoenix Police with ICE and DEA busted a human smuggling ring that started in Mexico and smuggled illegals from Mexico to Tucson and Phoenix. In fact, they had cooperation from the Mexican gov't.

There were no protests.

Boomyal said:

Oh but, you know that they will bill it as such! Just like 95+% of terrorists are arab muslims. If you try to call it such, you will be vilified as racist!

The same, I might add, if you vehemently disagree with Obama's policies, you are, no doubt, a racist.

It is the game they play when they have no other arguement.

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Sort of like, when you opposed the Bush administration, and his war in Iraq, you were a traitor? Or, sort of like when you vote against the GOP, you are a liberal. Your side pigeon holes like everyone else.

UtahBill said:

Same way they did before this law was signed...somebody called the cops and the cops responded and apprehend someone, and that someone can't speak english...
The law abiding illegals will be the last deported. If you don't cause trouble, you will likely be ignored by everyone, including the cops.

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The problem is in your own definition. The word likely opens up the door for so many troubles and the only people who will understand that are the people who likely affects and will affect

Boomyal said:

Oh but, you know that they will bill it as such! Just like 95+% of terrorists are arab muslims. If you try to call it such, you will be vilified as racist!

The same, I might add, if you vehemently disagree with Obama's policies, you are, no doubt, a racist.

It is the game they play when they have no other arguement.

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If you factor in the whole of the world its 95% but if you isolate terrorism to merely the US I would say about 1% the united states government and the people who reside here do way more damage because our brave men and women are fighting day and night to protect us from Muslim extremist these days. But not so much from government and regular crime because they are being discouraged from doing so at every smart decision they make.

TBone said:

Sort of like, when you opposed the Bush administration, and his war in Iraq, you were a traitor? Or, sort of like when you vote against the GOP, you are a liberal. Your side pigeon holes like everyone else.

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Yes you are right. ButThe fault is our own. We stand to hate to politician grouping him or her with an issue and lose focus from the actual issues. The simple truth I will say in a metaphor.

Imagine two lands one has an Army hell bent on conquering and one is just a land of free living people. Now with the opposing army threating that peace of the free only do they attempt to build a defense against that army. But instead of building that army of protection whose goal is to be respected enough to cause peace with action and defense you now have farmers picking up a sword for the first time thinking the sword alone that will save them.

Government is established and its functions are established. This issues that envelope social climate are issues that have been long standing threating our nation now on the vurge of defeat people choose to ridicule a peace of legislation by Barack Obama that so called takes our rights? Instead of focusing on triumphs in the form of legislations that grant more. Everyone is against but never for and those established proposing ideas better serve success because they have a goal not just a target. If you oppose healthcare and immigration its not the laws to be created at fault but the system and inaction of the American people to allow such decision making. So they can rave and rant all they want but it does nothing for a true cause but postpone the inevitable

danarhea said:

It doesn't have to be in the law. Let me ask you a single question - How would law enforcement in Arizona know that the law is being broken? In other words, what is probable cause to suspect that a felony has been committed in connection with this law?

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Same as with any other law. They can search you with probable cause, etc. They have to have probable cause though. How is this any different than any other application of probable cause?

Answer: It's not.

rivrrat said:

Same as with any other law. They can search you with probable cause, etc. They have to have probable cause though. How is this any different than any other application of probable cause?

Answer: It's not.

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With any legislation there is perspective and this piece of legislation allows for people to determine what probable cause is in the form of skin color. American citizens will indeed do their civic duty and call the police but what happens when they are wrong?

What is probable cause? Other than broken english and skin color.

TBone said:

You live here, and you know that Sheriff Joe is only trying to get publicity. If he did his job and shut his mouth, and if he was not posing with neo nazis, we would not say anything.

Last week, Phoenix Police with ICE and DEA busted a human smuggling ring that started in Mexico and smuggled illegals from Mexico to Tucson and Phoenix. In fact, they had cooperation from the Mexican gov't.

There were no protests.

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His only goal in life is publicity? I get it, you like paying taxes to support non-citizens...or do you even pay taxes?

Joe will not likely ever get replaced, until he dies. And even then, it won't be a democrat that wins that office.....
That is how it is. If you want a more liberal state govt, try California, the nearly bankrupt state....

UtahBill said:

His only goal in life is publicity? I get it, you like paying taxes to support non-citizens...or do you even pay taxes?

Joe will not likely ever get replaced, until he dies. And even then, it won't be a democrat that wins that office.....
That is how it is. If you want a more liberal state govt, try California, the nearly bankrupt state....

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Wow, how you got that from my post, I will never know.

Joe will be indicted and removed. I did not state I wanted a democrat for sheriff. This state will never have democrat for anything but govenor, which is a head scratcher.

The fact that you think our state is a better financial state that California is amazing. We are not in the same shape, but we are in bad shape. In fact, we have not had a budget for how long?

No, I don't want liberal gov't, I want intelligent gov't. Hey I'd love for Barry Goldwater to return from the grave to slap around the idiots in our gov't, including McCain and Kyle. I thought Janet was and is an idiot as govenor and sec of DHS.

The yahoos in our gov't are just that yahoos. The governor is an idiot, the legislature is made up of conservative, whimpy moderates who are scared of russell pearce, and silent democrats, who lack back bone an.

The county government, a majority of all GOP, one democrat, are clowns. The sheriff thinks he's god or Napolian (sic), the ex county attorney was living in lala land, and he will be disbared soon. the board of supervisors are crooked and built a court tower that was not needed and laid off workers and took away money from law enforcement.

Nope, I will not leave, I don't run from a fight. We need to fix this mess and get competent persons in gov't, all persons to vote. I don't care if it is GOP or Dem.

TBone said:

You made the mistake assuming I am a liberal. I don't assume anything.

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I'm not assuming anything. I'm taking you at your word:

If people of color and minorities voted, we would not have right wingers in power.

So you are telling me Conservative politicians can be trusted?

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At least they don't believe non whites are some subhuman group who have to have separate laws in order to protect them.

texmaster said:

I'm not assuming anything. I'm taking you at your word:

If people of color and minorities voted, we would not have right wingers in power.



At least they don't believe non whites are some subhuman group who have to have separate laws in order to protect them.

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No, some conservatives believe it is okay to violate the rights of others as long as it protects them and does not affect their rights. The fact that you believe that any politician can be trusted amazes me. Right, Middle, and left all have an agenda, and will piss on anyone to move their agenda.

TBone said:

No, some conservatives believe it is okay to violate the rights of others as long as it protects them and does not affect their rights. The fact that you believe that any politician can be trusted amazes me.

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Where did I say any politican can be trusted? Produce that quote.

Right, Middle, and left all have an agenda, and will piss on anyone to move their agenda.

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Never said they didn't have an agenda but the agenda differs between the groups.

Do you understand that being here illegally is a crime? Do you understand that?

UtahBill;1058708651] I get it, you like paying taxes to support non-citizens...or do you even pay taxes?

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Wow, you think I don't pay taxes. I pay a lot of taxes. Too much taxes. Maybe even more than you. What bracket are you in?

I don't like supporting anyone. I don't believe in welfare or a free ride. I am not a liberal.

The argument I am making is not to support illegal aliens, send them all back. I don't want them here illegally.

My argument is that the law allows a police officer to come up to me and ask me for proof of citizenship because I am latino. The probable cause he uses is the fact that I am in Arizona, and a majority of illegal aliens are latinos, then since I am latino, I may or may not be here legally.

Hell, you want me to me happy that he's checking me. I should be happy for the inconvenience?

So would you be happy if the police could randomly search an anglo who may be a right wing extremist, someone bent on supporting a militia that wants to over throw the US government?. After all, most right wing extremist are anglos? If the person is legal, then what is the big deal?

texmaster said:

Where did I say any politican can be trusted? Produce that quote.



Never said they didn't have an agenda but the agenda differs between the groups.

Do you understand that being here illegally is a crime? Do you understand that?

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I agree, no one should be here illegally, send them back. I against racial profiling. The fact that the probable cause for this law allows a police officer to question me just because I live in AZ, where a majority of illegals are latino, so I may be legal or illegal. This is profiling.

texmaster said:

Do you understand that being here illegally is a crime? Do you understand that?

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Do you understand that I don't want to be checked because I am here legally, and they have no right to check my status, or invade my privacy?

I don't illegals here.

TBone said:

Wow, you think I don't pay taxes. I pay a lot of taxes. Too much taxes. Maybe even more than you. What bracket are you in?

I don't like supporting anyone. I don't believe in welfare or a free ride. I am not a liberal.

The argument I am making is not to support illegal aliens, send them all back. I don't want them here illegally.

My argument is that the law allows a police officer to come up to me and ask me for proof of citizenship because I am latino.

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You are dishonestly discribing what the bill states.

The probable cause he uses is the fact that I am in Arizona, and a majority of illegal aliens are latinos, then since I am latino, I may or may not be here legally.

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Wrong again. The probably cause is you are committing a different crime, you are questioned and under questioning you fall under suspicion for perhaps some of the following reasons:

You speak only Spanish.

When you are asked for ID you produce a Mexican identification card.

You can't produce a legal residence.


This isn't rocket science.

Hell, you want me to me happy that he's checking me. I should be happy for the inconvenience?

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Yes, you should be. I'm not offended when I'm pulled over and asked for my id and neither should you.

The problem is the liberals you have been listening to want you to always assume racism under every rock which fuels this sad reaction.

So would you be happy if the police could randomly search an anglo who may be a right wing extremist, someone bent on supporting a militia that wants to over throw the US government?. After all, most right wing extremist are anglos? If the person is legal, then what is the big deal?

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Where are you getting this fantasy of random search? Its proof of citizenship ie valid driver's license :roll:

Get off the Oh noes racism trip and wake up to reality.