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Thread: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

  1. #571
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    It isn't opinion, it's fact.

    Line 26 says it all:

    ANY PERSON WHO IS ARRESTED SHALL HAVE THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS DETERMINED BEFORE THE PERSON IS RELEASED. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c). A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS SUBSECTION EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE UNITED STATES OR ARIZONA CONSTITUTION. A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
    1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
    2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
    3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.
    4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.

    Can't profile and legal ID means they are presumed to be in the country legally.

    That about sums it up.

    .
    Common sense and facts like this are ignored like water off a ducks back... you have to throw some hyperbole in there and make some outrageous statements and inane questions... how dare you use facts in such a discussion as this!
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    I'm still certain there are bigoted cops who are going to abuse this, but what can you do? With or without the legal population, the Hispanic population will be the new majority of this country by 2030. Karma has a way of striking back.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I'm still certain there are bigoted cops who are going to abuse this, but what can you do? With or without the legal population, the Hispanic population will be the new majority of this country by 2030. Karma has a way of striking back.
    Not sure what they would be "striking back" about? We did not treat the Hispanics all that bad. Especially when you compare how we trested the North American Indian tribes.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I'm still certain there are bigoted cops who are going to abuse this, but what can you do? With or without the legal population, the Hispanic population will be the new majority of this country by 2030. Karma has a way of striking back.
    Yawn.

    We heard the same thing back in the 90s and then it was Hispanics would be the majority in the southwest by 2010.

    Please don't play race wars.
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Why are you trying to make a fight out of something that was decided several posts back? As I said, within the context of preserving the 14 amendment rights of Hispanic citizens, I have no problem with this law. You need to learn to do more than spot read posts.
    Fourth Amendment.

    Not Fourteenth.

    Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

    1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    Arizona's law applies to all, equally. No violation.

    Asking a person suspected of being an illegal alien is now in perfect accordance with statute. No violation.

    2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
    Doesn't seem to have much applicability to asking a possible Invader for his ID.

    3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
    I'm kinda thinking that none of the current crop of Invaders wore Confederate Grey. What's your opinion on this essential matter?

    4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
    Well, if any of the Invaders wants to pay off some Confederate debt, I don't see why they should be stopped.


    5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
    Needless to say, Congress isn't enforcing squat, but the matter if the Invasion isn't covered by the Fourteenth Amendment, except for the misread part where invader spawn is improperly granted citizenship, something the authors of this Amendment had no intention of granting.



    Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    It's not "unreasonable" to demand a person suspected of other crimes to produce papers demonstrating that he is not also violating federal immigration law. Nor does it violate probable cause, since he's already under suspicion, with probable cause for violating other laws.

    So, there's no Constitutional issues with Arizona's law. What's your problem with it again?

    Oh, yeah, it defends the United States against an Invasion by inimical foreigners.
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 04-28-10 at 08:11 PM.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Can't.

    The law doesn't permit random sampling of the population based on "looks like an Invader". It requires that the police stop people for suspicion of some other offense and then requires the officer to check residency status, if he suspects this additional crime to have been committed.

    Since, however, the USSC has stated that blanket random road "checkpoints" for DUI and seatbelt usage do not violate the FOURTH Amendment, then it goes to follow that random routine road checkpoints for violation of other state laws cannot be a violation of that same Amendment.

    BTW, you could try reading your constitution someday. I mean, if you're going to argue some law or other violates an amendment, shouldn't you at least pick a number of an Amendment that might pertain to what it is you're wishing it violated, but doesn't?



    "Lawful contact", in essence, the suspect has to be suspected, with reasonable suspicion, of committing some other offense.

    Suddenly you people have a problem with the police apprehending criminals? Its that why you keep sending the same criminals to Washington every year, and not, as I once suspected, you desired to get them out of your own neighborhoods?
    Way to talk around the Q on this. Here is the question that exposes this law for what it is:

    What is going to constitute reasonable suspicion that a police officer knows what someone is or is not carrying in his wallet.

    Answer that one, my friend, and you have just become Karnak the Magnificent. On the other hand, if you are a mere mortal, like the rest of us, the only answer that you can give is "Because he looks brown". This includes not only illegal aliens, but Hispanics who were born right here in the good ole' USA. That constitutes racial profiling. If you say I am full of crap here, then answer this second question:

    How many white people are going to be stopped and thrown in jail for not carrying papers?

    The answer for anyone whose IQ is higher than that of an artichoke is "NONE". Therefore, the law is racist.

    One other question:

    How has Arizona dealt with illegal aliens in the past?

    By turning them over to Immigration, who deported them. But the new law says that they have to be put into places, for a length of time, and taken care of before being deported. Who pays for that? Arizona's taxpayers, of course. So not only are Arizona's lawmakers complete idiots for passing a bill that will be struck down by SCOTUS as racist, but they are also complete idiots for passing a bill that can only be enforced by raising taxes. In short - Arizona's lawmakers are complete idiots.
    Last edited by danarhea; 04-28-10 at 09:29 PM.
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Way to talk around the Q on this. Here is the question that exposes this law for what it is:

    What is going to constitute reasonable suspicion that a police officer knows what someone is or is not carrying in his wallet.

    Answer that one, my friend, and you have just become Karnak the Magnificent. On the other hand, if you are a mere mortal, like the rest of us, the only answer that you can give is "Because he looks brown". This includes not only illegal aliens, but Hispanics who were born right here in the good ole' USA. That constitutes racial profiling. If you say I am full of crap here, then answer this second question:

    How many white people are going to be stopped and thrown in jail for not carrying papers?

    The answer for anyone whose IQ is higher than that of an artichoke is "NONE". Therefore, the law is racist.

    One other question:

    How has Arizona dealt with illegal aliens in the past?

    By turning them over to Immigration, who deported them. But the new law says that they have to be put into places, for a length of time, and taken care of before being deported. Who pays for that? Arizona's taxpayers, of course. So not only are Arizona's lawmakers complete idiots for passing a bill that will be struck down by SCOTUS as racist, but they are also complete idiots for passing a bill that can only be enforced by raising taxes. In short - Arizona's lawmakers are complete idiots.
    How many whites sneak in from Mexico illegal to work. Answer: Zero.....profiling is a good thing. Check all the bastards, most down there probably are illegal or know someone who is. It's high time these illegals get an asskicking.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Way to talk around the Q on this. Here is the question that exposes this law for what it is:

    What is going to constitute reasonable suspicion that a police officer knows what someone is or is not carrying in his wallet.

    Answer that one, my friend, and you have just become Karnak the Magnificent. On the other hand, if you are a mere mortal, like the rest of us, the only answer that you can give is "Because he looks brown". This includes not only illegal aliens, but Hispanics who were born right here in the good ole' USA. That constitutes racial profiling. If you say I am full of crap here, then answer this second question:

    How many white people are going to be stopped and thrown in jail for not carrying papers?

    The answer for anyone whose IQ is higher than that of an artichoke is "NONE". Therefore, the law is racist.

    One other question:

    How has Arizona dealt with illegal aliens in the past?

    By turning them over to Immigration, who deported them. But the new law says that they have to be put into places, for a length of time, and taken care of before being deported. Who pays for that? Arizona's taxpayers, of course. So not only are Arizona's lawmakers complete idiots for passing a bill that will be struck down by SCOTUS as racist, but they are also complete idiots for passing a bill that can only be enforced by raising taxes. In short - Arizona's lawmakers are complete idiots.
    Why is racial profiling racist?

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Fourth Amendment.

    Not Fourteenth.
    No, I meant the 14th amendment. Mainly Section 1. You really are a class act, aren't ya? I already said I would support the law as long as the Constitutional rights of Hispanic citizens are protected and yet you are still trying to fight me. Why?

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Way to talk around the Q on this. Here is the question that exposes this law for what it is:

    What is going to constitute reasonable suspicion that a police officer knows what someone is or is not carrying in his wallet.

    Answer that one, my friend, and you have just become Karnak the Magnificent. On the other hand, if you are a mere mortal, like the rest of us, the only answer that you can give is "Because he looks brown". This includes not only illegal aliens, but Hispanics who were born right here in the good ole' USA. That constitutes racial profiling. If you say I am full of crap here, then answer this second question:

    How many white people are going to be stopped and thrown in jail for not carrying papers?

    The answer for anyone whose IQ is higher than that of an artichoke is "NONE". Therefore, the law is racist.

    One other question:

    How has Arizona dealt with illegal aliens in the past?

    By turning them over to Immigration, who deported them. But the new law says that they have to be put into places, for a length of time, and taken care of before being deported. Who pays for that? Arizona's taxpayers, of course. So not only are Arizona's lawmakers complete idiots for passing a bill that will be struck down by SCOTUS as racist, but they are also complete idiots for passing a bill that can only be enforced by raising taxes. In short - Arizona's lawmakers are complete idiots.
    OK, I see your point. So, since you are white, I would then have reasonable suspicion to assume that you are a member of the KKK?
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