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Thread: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

  1. #521
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    I wonder where this will lead. Will business be hurt? Will tourism be hurt? Will Arizona's overall economic recovery be hurt? I rather think so on all counts.
    Lets say that you were a small business man in Sonora, Mexico making, lets say widgits. Your customer base is in AZ. AZ then passes this law. You now might have to show ID when delivering your widgits to Phoenix.

    You have already been asked for your passport when crossing the border into the USA, then again at the Border Patrol checkpoint between Ajo and Gila Bend. Now IF you are stopped by the police for an unrelated reason, you will have to show your papers again.

    As the small business man, do you care? Probably not. What is showing your papers 3 times instead of the already required 2?
    Is it enough to tell a widgit customer that you are no longer going to do business with him? Are you going to turn down work in this poor economy?

    I think the negative economic impact of this bill is being exaggerated by the naysayers.

    You can pick your own reason why.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Still waiting for you to show that "lawful contact" means I have to be pulled over already.

    Ok, he was just taken down to the station and his wife had to leave work to run home and get his birth certificate. That's much better.

    edit: On a serious note, can anybody find a hard definition of "lawful contact" anywhere? I don't see it in the bill, there might be something in other Arizona laws that defines it. If the term isn't defined, the law is clearly written too vaguely.
    "That means the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he's violated some other law," says Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri Kansas City Law School professor who helped draft the measure. "

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    70% of people in Arizona support this law, and according to what I just heard on the radio, it has resulted in a 15 point surge in the governors approval rating.

    So let me fix your post for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Given the huge negative blowback and liberal outcry, I'm beginning to question my own acceptance of the bill.

    Maybe I'm not understanding how it's going to be utilized by local law enforcement.

    Or maybe liberals are not understand the severity of the problem in terms of a drain on public services/funds.

    I still think a more effective and less controversial approach would be harsher legislation focused on employers using undocumented workers. Make the fines steep and enforce the law. This would also bring more money into the state in the form of payroll taxes.
    There... That's better.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim17 View Post
    70% of people in Arizona support this law, and according to what I just heard on the radio, it has resulted in a 15 point surge in the governors approval rating.

    So let me fix your post for you.



    There... That's better.
    FAR more accurate
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No, it's not all we need to know, because you haven't established that the justifications aren't expanded by this law, because nobody knows the legal definition of "lawful contact" yet. I think you're probably right, but it's not proven yet.
    Try this link A carefully crafted immigration law in Arizona | Washington Examiner

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    Lets say that you were a small business man in Sonora, Mexico making, lets say widgits. Your customer base is in AZ. AZ then passes this law. … As the small business man, do you care? Probably not. …
    Is it enough to tell a widgit customer that you are no longer going to do business with him? Are you going to turn down work in this poor economy? …
    You have described a business man who has no choice; he has to do business in Arizona. Is his behavior altered even if the legislation is profoundly offensive to him? Probably not, at least not right away.

    But the business man who has a choice, does he pick Arizona or a different state? Arizona just gave him a reason to look elsewhere.

    That's the problem when Arizona passes a law offensive to a whole class of people. They will change their behavior, even go out of their way because they are like everybody else, they don't like to be insulted.

    And, people who want to do business with those people would do well by showing their support for their feelings, too.

    We shall see just how much people alter their choices. My sense Arizona's economic recovery will be slowed; people will choose a different location to visit or invest.
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    70% of people in Arizona support this law, and according to what I just heard on the radio, it has resulted in a 15 point surge in the governors approval rating.

    So let me fix your post for you.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hazlnut
    Given the huge negative blowback and liberal outcry, I'm beginning to question my own acceptance of the bill.

    Maybe I'm not understanding how it's going to be utilized by local law enforcement.

    Or maybe liberals are not understand the severity of the problem in terms of a drain on public services/funds.

    I still think a more effective and less controversial approach would be harsher legislation focused on employers using undocumented workers. Make the fines steep and enforce the law. This would also bring more money into the state in the form of payroll taxes.

    There... That's better.



    Nicely done.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by cholla View Post
    "That means the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he's violated some other law," says Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri Kansas City Law School professor who helped draft the measure. "
    Yes I'm aware that some guy says that, but what is he basing that on?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Yes I'm aware that some guy says that, but what is he basing that on?
    Originally Posted by cholla
    "That means the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he's violated some other law," says Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri Kansas City Law School professor who helped draft the measure. "

    Some guy is one of those who helped write the bill. His meaning (given above)is the one closest to the truth of what the bill is intended to mean.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    You have described a business man who has no choice; he has to do business in Arizona. Is his behavior altered even if the legislation is profoundly offensive to him? Probably not, at least not right away.

    But the business man who has a choice, does he pick Arizona or a different state? Arizona just gave him a reason to look elsewhere.

    That's the problem when Arizona passes a law offensive to a whole class of people. They will change their behavior, even go out of their way because they are like everybody else, they don't like to be insulted.

    And, people who want to do business with those people would do well by showing their support for their feelings, too.

    We shall see just how much people alter their choices. My sense Arizona's economic recovery will be slowed; people will choose a different location to visit or invest.
    Arizona's economy is already bad....and the only offensive intent of this law is against law breakers...
    IF we can get the illegals out, businesses will have to hire American citizens as the economy improves, and employing law abiding citizens will certainly aid the process.
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