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Thread: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I don't think so. Personally I'm pushing up my trip to phoenix to this year instead of next.
    Yeah, and I convinced my Dad to come here instead of me visiting him in Arizona.
    Last edited by Chappy; 04-28-10 at 12:24 PM.
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Yeah, and I convinced my Dad to come here instead of me visiting him in Arizona.


    I spend more money on frivoulous things than your dad.



    Sorry enforcing federal law offends you so much.
    You should try to remember, ideas are conveyed by researching information, vetting sources, and confirming said information. Not by regurgitating talking points given to you by your "news" station.
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Sorry enforcing federal law offends you so much.
    As I've already pointed out, this is a false choice fallacy (and now you're using it as a straw man).

    There are more than one way to enforce laws. There are certainly bad ways of enforcing them. People have justified all kinds of abuses by saying this, including violations of the 4th and 5th amendment.

    I'm not saying the Arizona law is bad, just that this is not a good argument for it. Let's actually discuss the law for once.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I spend more money on frivoulous things than your dad.
    Oh, you would be right about my dad. On the other hand, my step-mom, the ultimate power shopper is coming, too. I rather think her absence from Arizona for any period of time will be felt.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    T
    Still waiting for you to prove lawful contact means the police can make up a reason to be talking to you or for no reason at all.

    #1 He didn't go to jail. that is false.

    #2 He didn't get held because he didn't have his birth certificate. He was held because of the answers he gave the police which prompted them to ask for more evidence of residency. It is not a standard requirement. You have no idea what was said that set off the officers.
    Still waiting for you to show that "lawful contact" means I have to be pulled over already.

    Ok, he was just taken down to the station and his wife had to leave work to run home and get his birth certificate. That's much better.

    edit: On a serious note, can anybody find a hard definition of "lawful contact" anywhere? I don't see it in the bill, there might be something in other Arizona laws that defines it. If the term isn't defined, the law is clearly written too vaguely.
    Last edited by Deuce; 04-28-10 at 12:35 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Still waiting for you to show that "lawful contact" means I have to be pulled over already.
    I didn't say it was just for being pulled over. Read more carefully.

    Still waiting for you to prove that lawful contact means they can confront you based on immigration status alone.

    Ok, he was just taken down to the station and his wife had to leave work to run home and get his birth certificate. That's much better.
    Is that your way of conceding you have no idea what was said in the conversation that led to the birth certificate?
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Still waiting for you to show that "lawful contact" means I have to be pulled over already.
    Police have always had to have a legal justification for pulling someone over. Those justifications are not expanded by this new law. In fact, the law specifically states that suspicion of being an illegal alien is not legal justification. That's all you really need to know.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    I didn't say it was just for being pulled over. Read more carefully.

    Still waiting for you to prove that lawful contact means they can confront you based on immigration status alone.



    Is that your way of conceding you have no idea what was said in the conversation that led to the birth certificate?
    Abdon was told he did not have enough paperwork on him when he pulled into a weigh station to have his commercial truck checked. He provided his commercial driver’s license and a social security number but ended up handcuffed.
    An officer saying "Nice day, isn't it?" could be considered "lawful contact" if that term is not defined anywhere. You're basing your entire argument on the assumption that this guy did something to somehow make the officer doubt the validity of the man's driver's license/SSN. The bottom line is he was handcuffed and taken in because he wasn't carrying a birth certificate. Papiere, bitte.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    I wonder where this will lead. Will business be hurt? Will tourism be hurt? Will Arizona's overall economic recovery be hurt? I rather think so on all counts.
    Why the **** would anyone avoid going there? Makes no sense. Only those truly ignorant of the law would refrain from going there.

    Or those with something to hide.

    Either way, I'm sure AZ and its citizens will be more than happy those folks (the ignorant or the illegal) stayed away.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Wow! Just, wow! This bill is a colossal error.
    Its their state let them do what they want to.

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