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Thread: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

  1. #371
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    Hey you got a problem with that??? Who started the problem in the 1st place???


    OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH yeah! It was the ****ing MEXICANS!
    If people want to get mad.... get mad at the ILLEGAL MEXICANS that broke the mother ****ing LAW!!!!!!!!!!!

    Let the LEGAL mexicans here get mad at the ILLEGAL ones.

    But bottom line is when they get pulled over and get asked for license and registration and they dont have one..... that isnt profiling.

    Illegals dont deserve ANYthing from our Country except a kick in the ass BACK to Mexico! Break OUR laws to enter our Country and expect us to be gracious? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!

    Thank you for the laugh.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  2. #372
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Thank you for the laugh.

    You think its funny huh?
    YOU pay for their Illegal tax dollar taking, law breaking tails bub. If you want to bend over and take it in the out door its all you man.

    Maybe you dont understand how much they are stealing from you???

    Well here ya go!


    Someone has finally fixed an approximate taxpayer cost of between 12 million and 15 million illegal aliens residing in the U.S.
    A new study by the Heritage Foundation's Robert Rector found a household headed by an individual without a high school education, including about two-thirds of illegal aliens, costs U.S. taxpayers more than $32,000 in federal, state and local benefits. That same family contributes an average of $9,000 a year in taxes, resulting in a net tax burden of $22,449 each year.
    Over the course of the household's lifetime that tax burden translates to $1.1 million.

    If the lower figure of 12 million illegal aliens is used for estimation purposes, the total tax burden translates to $2.2 trillion.
    "Would any of us buy shares in a company that we knew would produce a loss of a million dollars a share," asks Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, in response to the study. "Cheap labor is not cheap at the cost of over a million dollars per head of household."
    Rector's study, "The Fiscal Cost of Low-Skill Households to the U.S. Taxpayer," examines the economics of the 17.7 million American households made up of people without a high-school degree. Using numbers from the Census Bureau, the Congressional Research Service, the Bureau of Labor Standards and other government agencies, Rector determined what they earn, what they spend and what they receive in government services.
    About half of the 17.7 million households studied are illegal aliens. About two-thirds of illegal alien households are headed by someone without a high school degree. Only 10 percent of native-born Americans fit into that category.
    "Over the next ten years the total cost of low-skill households to the taxpayer (immediate benefits minus taxes paid) is likely to be at least $3.9 trillion," Rector writes. "This number would go up significantly if changes in immigration policy lead to substantial increases in the number of low-skill immigrants entering the country and receiving services."
    CORPORATE GREED AND UNION GREED
    DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS
    DESTROYING THE BEST OF AMERICA ONE DAY AT A TIME

    This is the worst kind of discrimination. The kind against ME! ~ Bender

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Thank you for the laugh.
    You chuckled too huh?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #374
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    The sky is not falling...


    "...The law specifically bans picking up someone just because they are Hispanic or even because the person was originally from Mexico or any other country you can read a copy of the law right here. Anyone arrested for a crime must have their immigration status determined before they are released. Thus, it is not just Hispanics who will be required to provide evidence of citizenship, but so will all whites, blacks and Asians. If the eligibility for public services depends on citizenship, again, everyone who applies, regardless of race, will have to provide an ID. In other circumstances, law enforcement officials must have reasonable suspicion, not based simply on the person's race or origin, that the individual is an illegal alien before they can ask to check someone's ID.

    Police today already have to deal with the "reasonable suspicion" standard all the time in other areas of law enforcement, and most understand very well how this standard limits what they can do. Police know that they can't pull over drivers for fear that they are smuggling drugs just because they are black. "Reasonable suspicion" requires that the known facts and circumstances are sufficient to convince a person of "reasonable prudence" that a crime has been committed. Obviously in a state such as Arizona, with an estimated half a million illegal immigrants, the vast majority OF illegal aliens are going to be Hispanic. But the reasonableness standard used by Arizona specifically requires something other than just race or national origin..."

    FOXNews.com - Fears of Arizona's Immigration Law Are Bogus

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Anyone is targeted if the police officer feels like it. Apparently that is good enough to bypass the 4th amendment now.

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Funny how selective conservatives get when they support bills like this. Only targets illegals my ass.

    edit: Did it occur to you that you only seem to rail about personal rights when it supports your personal political beliefs?
    You are asked for your ID at banks, when you apply for a job and anytime you are stopped by police without it ever once violating the 4th ammendment so your claims that this law is any different is completely false.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

  6. #376
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You don't listen very well.
    What?

    Nobody here is arguing against a law that targets illegals. They are arguing against a law that requires anyone to submit documents to police proving that they are legal or face being arrested. That gives the police quite a bit of power to find anyone with brown skin and ask for their papers.
    See that is your interpretation of the law not the actual law. You assume that it only targets a certain kind of person yet the law is very clear it does not target any race specifically and they must have probable cause before even asking for that id.

    The law is too broad and gives the police too much discretion. If the law did only target illegals, then very few people would be complaining. But the law is poorly written and so it can serve as a tool of discrimination.
    Again you cannot point to any part of the law that targets a specific group of people only except the focus being on illegals which never once mentions race. You rely on your assumptions to discredit the law and that isn't honest.
    Last edited by texmaster; 04-27-10 at 06:53 AM.
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    See that is your interpretation of the law not the actual law. You assume that it only targets a certain kind of person yet the law is very clear it does not target any race specifically and they must have probable cause before even asking for that id.
    The entire debate comes down to this section of the bill....

    FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.

    What is "reasonable suspicion"? That they have brown skin? That they speak with an accent? There could be a thousand different interpretations of what is reasonable in suspecting someone is an illegal.

    It's the vagueness of those words that make this a poorly written bill. It leaves it to law enforcement to decide what a reasonable suspicion is and that is why the bill could be used to target legal Hispanics.

  8. #378
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The entire debate comes down to this section of the bill....

    FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.

    What is "reasonable suspicion"? That they have brown skin? That they speak with an accent? There could be a thousand different interpretations of what is reasonable in suspecting someone is an illegal.

    It's the vagueness of those words that make this a poorly written bill.
    Wrong again. It trusts the police to know the streets and the people that occupy them. When there is a robbery do you not trust the police to know who looks suspicious? If you don't then there is no point in arguing since you can't trust the police to do their job.

    It leaves it to law enforcement to decide what a reasonable suspicion is and that is why the bill could be used to target legal Hispanics.
    "COULD BE" "PERHAPS" "MAYBE"

    Thats your entire argument. The threat of abusing the law which is ALWAYS a threat when any law is passed.

    That isn't a reason not to have the law. Try again.
    Last edited by texmaster; 04-27-10 at 11:03 AM.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    “I believe it's not going to have the kind of economic impact that some people think that it might.” — Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer¹

    Oh, really? Methinks that Arizona's competitors for all types of travel are circling like sharks.

    “The Arizona immigration bill signed into law today could have a chilling effect on international business travel, investment, and tourism in that state, as many people from around the world may think twice before visiting Arizona and subjecting themselves to potential run-ins with the police. As a city, New York may well benefit from another state undermining its own international competitiveness - we're happy to have those businesses and tourists come here.” — NY Mayor Michael Bloomberg²

    And, there are others calling for a boycott who rightly reflect on the injustice of the Arizona law.

    “We want to send a message. There are consequences when you target a whole people.” — San Francisco Supervisor David Campos³

    All these reactions are happening much faster than 1990, the last time Arizona publicly stepped in ****.

    Excerpted from “Calls to boycott Arizona multiply on social media” by Betty Beard and Dawn Gilbertson, The Arizona Republic, Apr. 27, 2010 12:00 AM
    Calls for boycotting Arizona and its businesses because of its new anti-illegal-immigration law have begun spreading virally, showing Arizona what it's like to be unpopular in a social-media era in which protesters can organize at the drop of a tweet. …
    Last edited by Chappy; 04-27-10 at 12:55 PM.
    “Real environmentalists live in cities, and they visit what's left of the wilderness as gently and respectfully as possible.” — Donna Moulton, letter to the editor, Tucson Weekly, published on August 23, 2001

  10. #380
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    “I believe it's not going to have the kind of economic impact that some people think that it might.” — Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer¹

    Oh, really? Methinks that Arizona's competitors for all types of travel are circling like sharks.

    “The Arizona immigration bill signed into law today could have a chilling effect on international business travel, investment, and tourism in that state, as many people from around the world may think twice before visiting Arizona and subjecting themselves to potential run-ins with the police. As a city, New York may well benefit from another state undermining its own international competitiveness - we're happy to have those businesses and tourists come here.” — NY Mayor Michael Bloomberg²

    And, there are others calling for a boycott who rightly reflect on the injustice of the Arizona law.

    “We want to send a message. There are consequences when you target a whole people.” — San Francisco Supervisor David Campos³

    All these reactions are happening much faster than 1990, the last time Arizona publicly stepped in ****.
    The only people who won't visit AZ due to this law are the idiots. AZ will be better off without them anyway.

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