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Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

what would happen to gringos caught unpapered in tampico?

no es divertido
 
why has the white house surrendered already on this issue?

no guts?

how will hispanics feel about the sell out?

kinda like gays when it comes to don't ask don't tell?

a little bit used, a little played?

not quite so en amor, in love?

no leadership on this issue, none, coming from dc

only politics and division

tragic
 
cholla said:
It is a crime for legal immigrants to not carry ID.
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Doesn't this only apply to those on a visa, not those who are citizens?


Oops- Ditto what Travelsonic said. :)
 
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The Prof said:
since ms brewer signed the bill she has risen in the polls by about 10 points

rcp moved the copper state out of the red-to-blue category and placed her solidly in red

gallup has arizona's reform at 51 to 39 in favor
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In the short term this will be true. I wonder how all the Mexican citizens in Arizona will vote in November. I believe the Hispanic, Latino, Spanish and Native American population in Arizona is over 40%. If the Dems can get those folks to the polls Arizona's days of being a red state will soon go the way of T-Rex.

It seems the Repubs in Arizona are setting themselves up twice to be losers. Once, by pissing off "all" immigrants by passing this bill and then watching it get overturned by SCOTUS and looking just plain stupid. And secondly, by motivating their immigrant population to get out and vote and to never vote Republican.

I just can't understand what Arizona's Repub leaders think this will do for them. I guess, we'll see.
 
How sure you are of your stereotype of the casual Hispanic voter? I know this may sound insanely racist, and probably more than a little bigoted, but Hispanic voters do not have some wide-spanning "racial conscience." They are human beings, and they have more to their political decisions than MSNBC's talking points.

The Pew Hispanic Center, in 2005, took a comprehensive look at Hispanic American views. 77% of American Hispanics oppose abortion. 62% of American Hispanics oppose gay marriage. 48% agree that lowering taxes is the best strategy for encouraging economic growth, as compared to 12% who thought raising taxes is the best strategy.

In California's Proposition 8 battle over Same-Sex Marriage, the most modest estimates of Hispanic voting patterns indicate 59% in favor of Proposition 8.

47 percent of Hispanics supported Proposition 200, which required proof of citizenship for government benefits. In 2006, 48 percent voted to make English the official language. Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Argentinians and a large selection of other South American inhabitants simply do not care about the border as Mexico's indigenous populations do.

What goes underreported is that Democrat domination of Immigrants of Hispanic Origin, according to the William C. Velasquez Institute, decreases from 70 percent Democrat (Republican at 18 percent) in the first generation to just barely half in the third. Clearly, as more and more Hispanics enter the country and become established; they realize that Democrats' promises are nothing but smoke and mirrors.
 
Areopagitican said:
How sure you are of your stereotype of the casual Hispanic voter? I know this may sound insanely racist, and probably more than a little bigoted, but Hispanic voters do not have some wide-spanning "racial conscience." They are human beings, and they have more to their political decisions than MSNBC's talking points.
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I wasn't making any statements as much as I was raising some questions. It just seems reasonable that if one party is trying to kick a person's relatives and friends out of this country then they just might not like them enough to vote against them. Just a thought.
 
ADK_Forever said:
I wasn't making any statements as much as I was raising some questions. It just seems reasonable that if one party is trying to kick a person's relatives and friends out of this country then they just might not like them enough to vote against them. Just a thought.
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And "some" Hispanics may not like the fact that certain individuals think each one of them has a relative who is here illegally.
 
ADK_Forever said:
In the short term this will be true. I wonder how all the Mexican citizens in Arizona will vote in November. I believe the Hispanic, Latino, Spanish and Native American population in Arizona is over 40%. If the Dems can get those folks to the polls Arizona's days of being a red state will soon go the way of T-Rex.

It seems the Repubs in Arizona are setting themselves up twice to be losers. Once, by pissing off "all" immigrants by passing this bill and then watching it get overturned by SCOTUS and looking just plain stupid. And secondly, by motivating their immigrant population to get out and vote and to never vote Republican.

I just can't understand what Arizona's Repub leaders think this will do for them. I guess, we'll see.
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You may be right that SCOTUS may turn back the law. On the other hand they may not. Based on the OK, which only one part of their immigration law dealing with hiring/firing was overturned, AZ law has a chance, imo.

ADK- Pretty sure of yourself on how "mexicans" may vote in AZ. There are many hispanics who support SB1070.

What I don't hear from the opposing side is what would they recommend in helping the border States. Status Quo is not an alternative. So I have no respect for those that cross into AZ illegally. Just tonight on the news BP caught over 100 illegals south of Tucson. They watched them cross the border at a non check point.
 
ADK_Forever said:
I wasn't making any statements as much as I was raising some questions. It just seems reasonable that if one party is trying to kick a person's relatives and friends out of this country then they just might not like them enough to vote against them. Just a thought.
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A lot of the legal immigrants I know utterly detest illegals.
 
what impels immigration reform in arizona is the cartels
 
Areopagitican said:
And "some" Hispanics may not like the fact that certain individuals think each one of them has a relative who is here illegally.
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That's not what I said or what I think.
 
Sorry mexicans no more free rides
 
mike2810 said:
You may be right that SCOTUS may turn back the law. On the other hand they may not. Based on the OK, which only one part of their immigration law dealing with hiring/firing was overturned, AZ law has a chance, imo.

ADK- Pretty sure of yourself on how "mexicans" may vote in AZ. There are many hispanics who support SB1070.

What I don't hear from the opposing side is what would they recommend in helping the border States. Status Quo is not an alternative. So I have no respect for those that cross into AZ illegally. Just tonight on the news BP caught over 100 illegals south of Tucson. They watched them cross the border at a non check point.
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I've previously stated my understanding as to why AZ passed this law, if it is because of the immigration issue and not a political ploy. I did not say how Mexicans would vote. I simply brought up some issues for discussion.

In all fairness, I also realize many immigrants are furious at the Dems, and Obama, for not dealing with this issue before now. So, between those who are po'd at the Repubs and those who are po'd at the Dems they just might all decide to not vote at all.

The only thing I'm sure of on this issue is that this is an issue that has no easy solution. It will require both Repubs and Dems to come together to work out a very hard plan. Frankly, I don't think they can work together honestly anymore. Hard decisions have to be made for the greater good, regardless of the political outcome.

Hard decisions have to be made on:
* Border control
* Businesses employing illegals
* A plan for illegals here to become citizens. This will be the hottest of all. I don't think it makes sense to say that all the illegals here have to go back to Mexico and work to come in legally. Most probably don't have anywhere to go in Mexico.
* Deporting, or not, of illegals convicted or suspected of crimes here.
* Anchor babies as excuse/reason to allow family to stay.
* I'm sure there are more...

This would be a great issue to work on, if the administration was really serious in supporting these efforts.
 
ADK_Forever said:
I've previously stated my understanding as to why AZ passed this law, if it is because of the immigration issue and not a political ploy. I did not say how Mexicans would vote. I simply brought up some issues for discussion.

In all fairness, I also realize many immigrants are furious at the Dems, and Obama, for not dealing with this issue before now. So, between those who are po'd at the Repubs and those who are po'd at the Dems they just might all decide to not vote at all.

The only thing I'm sure of on this issue is that this is an issue that has no easy solution. It will require both Repubs and Dems to come together to work out a very hard plan. Frankly, I don't think they can work together honestly anymore. Hard decisions have to be made for the greater good, regardless of the political outcome.

Hard decisions have to be made on:
* Border control
* Businesses employing illegals
* A plan for illegals here to become citizens. This will be the hottest of all. I don't think it makes sense to say that all the illegals here have to go back to Mexico and work to come in legally. Most probably don't have anywhere to go in Mexico.
* Deporting, or not, of illegals convicted or suspected of crimes here.
* Anchor babies as excuse/reason to allow family to stay.
* I'm sure there are more...

This would be a great issue to work on, if the administration was really serious in supporting these efforts.
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I can agree the issue is complex. I do think we need to control the borders. The influx needs to be stopped. Dealing with those already here is also a difficult issue. I feel that is almost secondary to controlling the borders.
IMO, we need to draw a line. Deal with those that are here. Any one else after a certain date who enters the country illegally should be deported if they have done no other crime.
 
I'm trying to decide when Arizona will implement its next "great" idea: Police can carry around tokens, after verifying that a person with brown skin is documented, they can give them a symbol...like a yellow star or a pink triangle...or better yet, a flag lapel pin that they can be required to wear in order to prove they have their papers.
 
Will rats infest Phoenix after the weeds and grass get too tall?
 
Okay, here's what I feel about this law.

I have no problem with enforcement of immigration laws. The law is the law.

But how you enforce it matters. My main concern is that there's a sort of built-in presumption of guilt. If a cop pulls you over and checks for warrants, if they don't find one you go free - you don't have to prove you don't have arrest warrants out. If you drive without a license, sure, you have to carry it with you, but that's reasonable because there's a state-issued card. But what proves you're a citizen? A green card proves you're a legal immigrant, but do citizens have proof of citizenship in their wallet? Not really. There's no national ID card (mainly because conservatives oppose it). Do you have to order a birth certificate from your state of birth and sit in jail and wait for it to arrive in the mail? Maybe the procedures are better than that, but I dont' know what they are.

The other problems are the burden on police time and the fact that illegals will stay away from police and not cooperate with them as witnesses.
 
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