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Thread: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

  1. #251
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Uh, did you not know that being an illegal immigrant makes you a criminal?
    It does make you a criminal if you are an illegal immigrant

    But what gives the police probable cause to believe you are an illegal immigrant

    It is not like it is writen your forehead, a legal US citizen walking down the street pretty much looks like an illegal immigrant walking down the street. So what is going to give the police probable cause to ask that person for his/her ID?
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Uh, did you not know that being an illegal immigrant makes you a criminal?
    Yes, but LOOKING like one when you aren't - being either a legal immigrant or full citizen - is the thing raising concerns, that and the fact that any bad cops [as opposed to the cool, legitimate, hardworking and honest cops] out there will abuse this in a matter of time. Probable cause ought to be something whose definition remains unperverted.
    Last edited by Travelsonic; 04-25-10 at 06:48 PM.
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    It does make you a criminal if you are an illegal immigrant

    But what gives the police probable cause to believe you are an illegal immigrant

    It is not like it is writen your forehead, a legal US citizen walking down the street pretty much looks like an illegal immigrant walking down the street. So what is going to give the police probable cause to ask that person for his/her ID?
    Got links to events like you describe? People walking down the street as innocent as newborn babes and the cops hauled demanded ID?
    Ever watch the show COPS? Occasionally they catch someone without ID, but they weren't just walking down the street. They were in a stolen car, more often than not....
    I am 64, and have been asked for ID twice, not counting being stopped for a traffic violation.
    Should I sue the govt?
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    The bill is a winner on many levels.

    1. It sends a message across the nation. DC is useless, states, do it on your own.

    2. It puts Obama in the open. Americans didn't want the last illegals bill, and they like this move. Obama shovels another few for his grave if he takes this on. Hope he does.

    3. It exposes the left and RINOs. May this be an added straw to help us get rid of both.

    4. It makes illegals feel unwelcome. As it should be.

    5. It might trigger other states to crack down too. The ice is broken.

    .
    It is too bad that I was afraid this issue would be a partisan pee contest but I think that there some great provisions in this bill and these paragraphs are an example:

    Knowingly employing unauthorized aliens; prohibition;
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    false and frivolous complaints; violation;
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    classification; license suspension and revocation;
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    affirmative defense
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    A. An employer shall not knowingly employ an unauthorized alien. If,
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    in the case when an employer uses a contract, subcontract or other
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    independent contractor agreement to obtain the labor of an alien in this
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    state, the employer knowingly contracts with an unauthorized alien or with a
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    person who employs or contracts with an unauthorized alien to perform the
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    labor, the employer violates this subsection
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  5. #255
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Travelsonic View Post
    Yes, but LOOKING like one when you aren't - being either a legal immigrant or full citizen - is the issue.
    I know the issue, and if you check with hispanics in Arizona, people who were born in the USA, most of them will agree with this bill. Illegals take THEIR jobs, too...and illegals commit crimes against them as much as whites.

    Of all the hispanics I ever worked with, most want the border secured. They pay taxes, too.

    I wonder why we don't have this issue with canadians? ..maybe Mexico should work on the problems they have instead of exporting them to the USA...
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Got links to events like you describe? People walking down the street as innocent as newborn babes and the cops hauled demanded ID?
    Ever watch the show COPS? Occasionally they catch someone without ID, but they weren't just walking down the street. They were in a stolen car, more often than not....
    I am 64, and have been asked for ID twice, not counting being stopped for a traffic violation.
    Should I sue the govt?
    And if you are caught in the middle of committing a crime you typically are forced to id yourself. Any one is. Which makes this part of the law irrelevant unless it is going to be used to check on the status of otherwise law abiding individuals

    Anyone in a stolen car is going to have to produce ID or at least identify themselves, which the police would check, anyone robbing a bank will as well. Meaning the entire point of allowing the police to check the ID of people if the have probable cause of that person being an illegal immigrant rather meaningless in such cases. The only reason to have that part of the law is too allow the police to check the ID of people who look like illegal immigrants
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    A big question is, what provisions are there aside from blind faith to prevent those with intent of abusing their authority - and completely botching the term "Probable Cause" for their own purposes - from doing so?
    Last edited by Travelsonic; 04-25-10 at 07:13 PM.
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    If Arizona wants to do this they should put up check points and check the citizenship of each and every person they stop, be they caucasian, hispanic, asian or african. Lets see how many Arizona residents woudl then support this law
    That sounds exactly like the way they catch drunk drivers in Georgia, for the past several months police have been randomly putting up check points and pulling everyone over and finding drunks, people without insurance, or unregistered vehicles. It has been a very successful operation. The roads are safer since they have been doing this.

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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    It does make you a criminal if you are an illegal immigrant

    But what gives the police probable cause to believe you are an illegal immigrant

    It is not like it is writen your forehead, a legal US citizen walking down the street pretty much looks like an illegal immigrant walking down the street. So what is going to give the police probable cause to ask that person for his/her ID?
    IMO they police won't be doing this. The status check would come after being stopped for some other reason. For example: If they stop a person for traffic violation, investigating a crime, responding to a call, and stop a person. at that time they may ask for identification. If the person does not have a drivers license, valid id, does something that makes the office suspect the person is not a legal resident, the officer could at that time have the persons status checked.

    IMO, the idea of the police doing nothing more than sweeps is the oppositions spin. I have yet to see the critics come up with an alternative to solving the illegal issue other than make them all legal. This in itself does not address the issue of the unprotected border. The feds need to close/control the borders and manage "legal" immigration. Having almost 1/2 million illegals in Arizona is not acceptable.
    The Feds have failed and ignored the issue for way to many years. Both Republicans and Democrats.
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    Re: Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I know the issue, and if you check with hispanics in Arizona, people who were born in the USA, most of them will agree with this bill. Illegals take THEIR jobs, too...and illegals commit crimes against them as much as whites.

    Of all the hispanics I ever worked with, most want the border secured. They pay taxes, too.

    I wonder why we don't have this issue with canadians? ..maybe Mexico should work on the problems they have instead of exporting them to the USA...
    You ask "I wonder why we don't have this issue with canadians? " As a person who lives in the Northeast within a few driving hours of the Canadian border I can tell you that the reason we do not have a bad illegal alien problem with Canada is because the Canadian economy is not that much worse than ours. I know that the small city that I grew up in we had the "Canucks " as people called them come down here to work. The part of the city that I lived in for a while was a French - Canadian ghetto call "Frog Hollow” (named for frogs not CANUCKS) and I knew Canadians cam here claiming that they were visiting their relatives but they were working here and taking jobs from Americans. Of course our “Canuck” problem was no where as bad as the Mexican or Latin American problem.

    Now if the police wanted to stop the "canucks" back then you could not really tell that you stopped a "canuck" unless they were driving their Quebec registered car or holding a hockey stick. The only sure fire way was to make then talk and listen to the accent.
    “I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us “ f107HyperSabr

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