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SEC employees surfed porn as economy fell

Blaming Wall Street for anything, sans Madoff and things similar, is class envy.

AHAHAHAH. Yes, how dare people blame wall street for anything, they're a benevolent organization full of the VERY BEST Americans, who'd never do anything bad. They'd never do something that hurts other people in the name of making money. NEVER.
 
AHAHAHAH. Yes, how dare people blame wall street for anything, they're a benevolent organization full of the VERY BEST Americans, who'd never do anything bad. They'd never do something that hurts other people in the name of making money. NEVER.

They benefit by mistakes made by idiots. Good for them. The only ones you can have an enmity towards are the Madoffs of the world.

I'm pretty sure the men of Wall Street weren't the imbeciles making 40K a year clamoring for a loan for a 1 million dollar house. Wall Street just gave them what they wanted.
 
That's right. it's a bad idea to rely on government bureaucrats because they might be looking at skimpy schoolgirls. BE AFRAID!!!!

Actually, it's painfully obvious that looking out for you is a lower priority than coming to work and ****ing off while collecting 6 figures a year.
 
AHAHAHAH. Yes, how dare people blame wall street for anything, they're a benevolent organization full of the VERY BEST Americans, who'd never do anything bad. They'd never do something that hurts other people in the name of making money. NEVER.

Government trough heads would never do anything bad, either. Eh?

BTW, when the government ****s you over, who are you going to complain to?
 
The alternative is to let Wall Street rise on fall on it's own and no, none of them are too big to fail.

That depends on how you define "too big to fail."

The total collapse of AIG would send ripples through the economy taking down even good companies. Their sheer amount of CDS liability in excess of their equity and assets were immense. Sure, if you think that bringing the country into total financial collapse and likely destroying the government in the process resulting in so ways anarchy, sure, that's not "too big to fail."

But then again, only maybe a handful of people on this forum have any understanding of economics and finance and you are not one of them.
 
That depends on how you define "too big to fail."

The total collapse of AIG would send ripples through the economy taking down even good companies. Their sheer amount of CDS liability in excess of their equity and assets were immense. Sure, if you think that bringing the country into total financial collapse and likely destroying the government in the process resulting in so ways anarchy, sure, that's not "too big to fail."

But then again, only maybe a handful of people on this forum have any understanding of economics and finance and you are not one of them.

I don't care how you define, "too big to fail". Any bank that is run into the ground by it's management, is small enough to fall flat on it's ass.

When AIG and a few smaller companies along with it, failed, other companies would have sprung up in their place. It's how capitalism works.

When the government, with no over-sight gets to say who fails and who doesn't, it's no longer free market capitalism.
 
I don't care how you define, "too big to fail". Any bank that is run into the ground by it's management, is small enough to fall flat on it's ass.

When AIG and a few smaller companies along with it, failed, other companies would have sprung up in their place. It's how capitalism works.

When the government, with no over-sight gets to say who fails and who doesn't, it's no longer free market capitalism.

We don' t have free market capitalism, we have manipulated market capitalism....:(
 
I don't care how you define, "too big to fail". Any bank that is run into the ground by it's management, is small enough to fall flat on it's ass.

When AIG and a few smaller companies along with it, failed, other companies would have sprung up in their place. It's how capitalism works.

When the government, with no over-sight gets to say who fails and who doesn't, it's no longer free market capitalism.

You basically proved my point about your ignorance. You in no way addressed how the CDS would drive good businesses into default. And it would not be a "few" smaller companies. Even large firms in capitalization of billions would see huge amounts of assets they were counting on disappear without any insurance to recoup their losses. When they go under, their related CDS get called in and so on and so forth.

AIG had its tentacles in so many things, it's unbelievable. AIG by itself posed a systematic risk.

The cost alone in unemployment benefits from the millions of workers out of jobs from AIG's collapse would IMO eclipse the cost of the bailout of AIG.

You think liquidity was bad when AIG was still around, it would be virtual gridlock if it went down.
 
You basically proved my point about your ignorance. You in no way addressed how the CDS would drive good businesses into default. And it would not be a "few" smaller companies. Even large firms in capitalization of billions would see huge amounts of assets they were counting on disappear without any insurance to recoup their losses. When they go under, their related CDS get called in and so on and so forth.

AIG had its tentacles in so many things, it's unbelievable. AIG by itself posed a systematic risk.

The cost alone in unemployment benefits from the millions of workers out of jobs from AIG's collapse would IMO eclipse the cost of the bailout of AIG.

You think liquidity was bad when AIG was still around, it would be virtual gridlock if it went down.


Still pushing theory as fact? I bet you believe in Global Warming, too.

But, as I said, so goes AIG, along with it's tentacle and along comes small up and coming companies to take their place and fill the new demand that has been created.

And, we're not even touching on the fact that the recession was caused by government intervention, to begin with.
 
Still pushing theory as fact? I bet you believe in Global Warming, too.

You have no idea what CDS stands for do you? :2wave:

But, as I said, so goes AIG, along with it's tentacle and along comes small up and coming companies to take their place and fill the new demand that has been created.

And how will they do that when banking completely collapses? When no one can get any financing at all?

And, we're not even touching on the fact that the recession was caused by government intervention, to begin with.

Not really. Housing as a percent of the economy is less then 1%. What set this off was securization of the mortgages, fraudulent ratings (which the GOP refuses to support regulation to stop) and over leverage by investment banks.
I guarantee you, if the mortgages were not securitized, or at least all C grade level mortgages were not, we would not be in this mess.

You really have no idea what I'm talking about do you?
 
You have no idea what CDS stands for do you? :2wave:



And how will they do that when banking completely collapses? When no one can get any financing at all?



Not really. Housing as a percent of the economy is less then 1%. What set this off was securization of the mortgages, fraudulent ratings (which the GOP refuses to support regulation to stop) and over leverage by investment banks.
I guarantee you, if the mortgages were not securitized, or at least all C grade level mortgages were not, we would not be in this mess.

You really have no idea what I'm talking about do you?

I knew it was going to be Bush's fault...:rofl

Maybe if Dodd and Frank hadn't pushed banks, especially Fannie and Freddie, to make loans that they knew wouldn't go to term, we wouldn't be in this mess.

The mess might have happened, no matter what, but at least we wouldn't be up to our eyeballs in government debt and the only answer to the problem that anyone can come up with is more bailouts, more government interference and more entitlements. Only the private sector can repair the economy. Not the government.

Where was the SEC when all this was going on? Jacking off under their desks while they watched internet porn?

It all boils down to one inescapable fact: in a free market, a poorly operated business falls and a new one takes it place to fill the supply vacuum.
 
I knew it was going to be Bush's fault...:rofl

Come again? Oh man, this is going to be worth a couple laughs downstairs. Where did I mention Bush? Oh right, I didn't. You just can't read. What I said was that the GOP is against the regulation of ratings agencies. If you paid any attention to the news, that's what is happening now.

Maybe if Dodd and Frank hadn't pushed banks, especially Fannie and Freddie, to make loans that they knew wouldn't go to term, we wouldn't be in this mess.

Did I say they weren't to blame. No. What I said is the securitization was the key problem. Housing alone is too small to make a difference in the total economy. Rip out huge sections of equity and assets on Wall Street and that will hurt the economy.

The mess might have happened, no matter what, but at least we wouldn't be up to our eyeballs in government debt and the only answer to the problem that anyone can come up with is more bailouts, more government interference and more entitlements. Only the private sector can repair the economy. Not the government.

So more partisan talking points and no actual understanding of macroeconomics?

Not surprising.

You still haven't shown you have any idea what a CDS is.

Where was the SEC when all this was going on? Jacking off under their desks while they watched internet porn?

Which actually is Bush's fault. After all, he cut their branch that oversees this kind of stuff to a mere 24 people for the ENTIRE country.

It all boils down to one inescapable fact: in a free market, a poorly operated business falls and a new one takes it place to fill the supply vacuum.

It amuses me how you think that ignorant talking points are a substitute for actual understanding.

You really do have no idea what I'm talking about do you?

Well, you did define profit as liquidity. I can't say I'm surprised.
 
Come again? Oh man, this is going to be worth a couple laughs downstairs. Where did I mention Bush? Oh right, I didn't. You just can't read. What I said was that the GOP is against the regulation of ratings agencies. If you paid any attention to the news, that's what is happening now.



Did I say they weren't to blame. No. What I said is the securitization was the key problem. Housing alone is too small to make a difference in the total economy. Rip out huge sections of equity and assets on Wall Street and that will hurt the economy.



So more partisan talking points and no actual understanding of macroeconomics?

Not surprising.

You still haven't shown you have any idea what a CDS is.



It amuses me how you think that ignorant talking points are a substitute for actual understanding.

You really do have no idea what I'm talking about do you?

Well, you did define profit as liquidity. I can't say I'm surprised.

Your argument is based totally on double speak and insults. Is that really all you have?

Which actually is Bush's fault. After all, he cut their branch that oversees this kind of stuff to a mere 24 people for the ENTIRE country.

See? I told'ya so.
 
Your argument is based totally on double speak and insults. Is that really all you have?

Keep going. This place hasn't had this level of entertainment lately.

1) You have no understanding of what a CDS is
2) You have no understanding of how firms are related
3) You have no understanding of what rating agencies do
4) You have no understanding of securitization is
5) You have no understanding of how credit flows in the country
6) You have no understanding that the GOP now is not Bush
7) You have no understanding that 1% of the economy cannot bring about a recession

I can keep going. I ask you questions and you never answer them. What does that suggest about your level of knowledge?

I bet you cannot even explain my arguments.

See? I told'ya so.

One truly must wonder if you can read. You accused me of saying Bush was at fault for the entire mess. What I stated was Bush was a fault for the massive cuts to the SEC. How you think that is the same thing, I don't know. But I'm literate. Not so sure about you.
 
What is amazing is that many government computers have filters that block this sort of stuff. I know friends who were trying to access the women's tennis results at the Australian Open get blocked on a DOJ computer because the front page had "Sex" (ie men's and women's divisions)

Same for the olympics. and if you got a blocked notice there was a note that all attempts to access that site were "logged and recorded"

yet the SEC computers allowed porn surfing
 
Keep going. This place hasn't had this level of entertainment lately.

1) You have no understanding of what a CDS is
2) You have no understanding of how firms are related
3) You have no understanding of what rating agencies do
4) You have no understanding of securitization is
5) You have no understanding of how credit flows in the country
6) You have no understanding that the GOP now is not Bush
7) You have no understanding that 1% of the economy cannot bring about a recession

I can keep going. I ask you questions and you never answer them. What does that suggest about your level of knowledge?

I bet you cannot even explain my arguments.



One truly must wonder if you can read. You accused me of saying Bush was at fault for the entire mess. What I stated was Bush was a fault for the massive cuts to the SEC. How you think that is the same thing, I don't know. But I'm literate. Not so sure about you.


And you call me illiterate? As I said, all you have is double speak, mind reading and insults to bring to an argument.
 
And you call me illiterate? As I said, all you have is double speak, mind reading and insults to bring to an argument.

lol. Amusing. Well, thanks for the kicks and giggles. I'm sure a bunch of people are going to have a laugh at you.

Btw, just because you don't understand something doesn't make it double speak.
 
They benefit by mistakes made by idiots. Good for them.

Especially good for Paulson, but bad for the idiots who trusted Goldman Sachs recommendation without full disclosure of Paulson's part in selecting securities. Yeah, what dummies they were.


I'm pretty sure the men of Wall Street weren't the imbeciles making 40K a year clamoring for a loan for a 1 million dollar house. Wall Street just gave them what they wanted.

No, the imbeciles were the bankers granting loans to people they knew were unqualified while helping them manufacture and falsify loan documents so they could approve the loans. Then they packaged them and sold them to unsuspecting investors, spreading toxic loans throughout the financial system. Guess they didn't count on it affecting them, huh?


The 18-month investigation by the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs subcommittee found that WaMu's lending operations were rife with fraud, including fabricated loan documents. It concluded that management failed to stem the deception despite internal probes.

The bank's pay system of rewarding loan officers and sales executives for their volume of loans closed ratcheted up the pressure, the investigators found.

Ex-WaMu execs defend bank's actions before failure - Yahoo! News


In some cases, sales associates in WaMu offices in California fabricated loan documents, cutting and pasting false names on borrowers' bank statements, the panel found. The company's own probe in 2005, three years before the bank collapsed, found that two top producing offices — in Downey and Montebello, Calif. — had levels of fraud exceeding 58 percent and 83 percent of the loans. Employees violated the bank's policies on verifying borrowers' qualifications and reviewing loans.

At WaMu, getting the job done meant lending money to nearly anyone who asked for it — the force behind the bank’s meteoric rise and its precipitous collapse this year in the biggest bank failure in American history.

On a financial landscape littered with wreckage, WaMu, a Seattle-based bank that opened branches at a clip worthy of a fast-food chain, stands out as a singularly brazen case of lax lending. By the first half of this year, the value of its bad loans had reached $11.5 billion, nearly tripling from $4.2 billion a year earlier.

Interviews with two dozen former employees, mortgage brokers, real estate agents and appraisers reveal the relentless pressure to churn out loans that produced such results. While that sample may not fully represent a bank with tens of thousands of people, it does reflect the views of employees in WaMu mortgage operations in California, Florida, Illinois and Texas.

Their accounts are consistent with those of 89 other former employees who are confidential witnesses in a class action filed against WaMu in federal court in Seattle by former shareholders.


According to these accounts, pressure to keep lending emanated from the top, where executives profited from the swift expansion — not least, Kerry K. Killinger, who was WaMu’s chief executive from 1990 until he was forced out in September.

Between 2001 and 2007, Mr. Killinger received compensation of $88 million, according to the Corporate Library, a research firm. He declined to respond to a list of questions, and his spokesman said he was unavailable for an interview.

During Mr. Killinger’s tenure, WaMu pressed sales agents to pump out loans while disregarding borrowers’ incomes and assets, according to former employees. The bank set up what insiders described as a system of dubious legality that enabled real estate agents to collect fees of more than $10,000 for bringing in borrowers, sometimes making the agents more beholden to WaMu than they were to their clients.

WaMu gave mortgage brokers handsome commissions for selling the riskiest loans, which carried higher fees, bolstering profits and ultimately the compensation of the bank’s executives. WaMu pressured appraisers to provide inflated property values that made loans appear less risky, enabling Wall Street to bundle them more easily for sale to investors.

.....

By 2005, the word was out that WaMu would accept applications with a mere statement of the borrower’s income and assets — often with no documentation required — so long as credit scores were adequate, according to Ms. Zaback and other underwriters.

“We had a flier that said, ‘A thin file is a good file,’ ” recalled Michele Culbertson, a wholesale sales agent with WaMu.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/business/28wamu.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
 
They benefit by mistakes made by idiots. Good for them. The only ones you can have an enmity towards are the Madoffs of the world.

I'm pretty sure the men of Wall Street weren't the imbeciles making 40K a year clamoring for a loan for a 1 million dollar house. Wall Street just gave them what they wanted.

Yes, and then packaged those subprime mortgages as good assets, then bet that they would fail, and ran chuckling to the bank.
 
Living within ones means ring a bell?

If those moronic peasants weren't trying to buy houses their checks couldn't cash, none of those problems would have happened.

A lot of those "moronic peasants" made a pile of money trading houses before the crash. Give them a chance to gamble with someone else's money, and they will.

Give me someone elses' money, with a I win, I win, I lose, you lose sort of deal, and I'm there, at the casino.

Wouldn't you be?
 
Living within ones means ring a bell?

If those moronic peasants weren't trying to buy houses their checks couldn't cash, none of those problems would have happened.

Care to explain to me how subprime loans, which in themselves are an immaterial portion of the economy could have caused these problems without the securitization of such assets and the purchase of such assets in vast numbers by investment banks often with leverage?
 
Care to explain to me how subprime loans, which in themselves are an immaterial portion of the economy could have caused these problems without the securitization of such assets and the purchase of such assets in vast numbers by investment banks often with leverage?

Without the folks clammoring for houses they couldn't afford, none of that ever happens. It was stupidity on both sides, and the government does nothing to help the situation when they bail folks out. First "too big to fail" that fails gives banks more incentive to take less risks than more regs ever will.
 
Without the folks clammoring for houses they couldn't afford, none of that ever happens.

I see no explanation how an immaterial portion of the economy could have caused this problem. Why? Obviously because you are wrong.

First "too big to fail" that fails gives banks more incentive to take less risks than more regs ever will.

Perhaps, hence why the motive to break them up before they get that big does have merit.
 
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