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Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

chevydriver1123 said:
I believe your missing the point, from how I see it, Lowden favors patients and doctors being able to bargain over costs.
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But insurance companies are the ones paying for most of the costs, and they already negotiate costs with providers now.
 
Ockham said:
What counts as "severe" and where is that defined in the bill exactly?

Car insurance requires a car, of which purchasing one is a choice. Health Insurance has no choice. You see the difference I hope.
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Most states require that you insure your vehicle to drive on their roads with it. If you do not do so, then that state will levy a fine against you, in some cases impound your vehicle, and if you don't pay the fine you could be actually do some time in the county jail for it.

The United States will now require that individuals carry health insurance when residing in the United States. If you cannot afford insurance, there will be subsidies to help you purchase it. If you can afford it, yet choose not to purchase coverage, then you will face an income tax penalty for that filing year. If you don't pay that tax penalty, nothing will happen to you. The government cannot file a lien against you for not paying it, and you won't face any criminal charges at all for not paying it.

So yeah, there is a big difference here. In the case of car insurance, states levy fines and possible jail time against you for not having it. Which the state has the power to do. In the case of health insurance, you could in some circumstances pay a tax penalty for not having it, which the federal government certainly has the power to levy income taxes as it sees fit.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Read the letter. It says you can go to jail for not filing or for willfully not paying taxes even though you can afford it. If you simply can't afford it then there is no jail time.
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barthold's letter says nothing about affordability, don't lie

Also, I was just sating my opinion.
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opinions are worthless
 
The Prof said:
barthold's letter says nothing about affordability, don't lie



opinions are worthless
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It says if you willfully don't pay your taxes. What do you think that means? Can you give me your interpretation of that? :roll:

I still don't get why you're panties are in a wad because I stated what I thought. Seems like you're just trying to start crap. That's the only reason i could see that anyone would come onto a forum and say that they don't care what people think and that opinions are worthless.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Because you're added healthcare costs for not having insurance effects the whole country when we have people going to emergency rooms for minor things and racking up huge bills that they can't pay.
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Sounds like Hospitals problem, so why are they making it my problem?

roughdraft274 said:
So a plan in which you pay into in order for it to cover something that may happen in the future isn't insurance?
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Something I pay into to cover something is an HSA. What I pay now which is called "insurance" isn't, correct.

roughdraft274 said:
Yea, it's a penalty. Not much point in writing a law that has no penalty and isn't enforceable. The point is though, it taxes you, it doesn't throw you in jail. If you don't pay your taxes then that's a separate matter all together.
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It's not separate since enforcement is dependent upon payment and the enforcement is left to the IRS. If the tax is not paid, by proxy payment lands one in jail if not paid.


roughdraft274 said:
It's not a loophole. The IRS still runs by whichever procedure it always has, this bill didn't change anything. The same thing happens regardless of what the taxes that didn't pay come from. I'm sure there's methods or rules in determining the penalties for not paying taxes, and going to jail is one of them, it's just not a common one.
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IF it's not a loophole, then by not buying insurance, the final result is jail since the IRS procedures are BAU.

roughdraft274 said:
The idea that someone will make a beginners mistake and automatically be thrown in jail is ridiculous.
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It could be on purpose - intent is irrelevant, the result is the issue.

roughdraft274 said:
IRS tax payments; income tax preparation and penalties; tax debts - MSN Money

"It's getting on April 15. You've finished your return, and you're still in shock. You made a lot of money and paid a lot of bills. But now you're looking at a tax bill that you just can't afford to pay.
Relax. You're not alone, and your plight is not unusual. Moreover, you're not going to jail. There are criminal penalties if the Internal Revenue Service can prove (the burden of proof is on the agency) that you intentionally didn't pay your taxes, but we'll assume that's not the case here. You just ran low on cash, and nobody goes to jail just because they owe money -- even to the IRS.
Your return is done -- that's how you know the magnitude of your debt. Send it in. Don't hold it just because you owe money that you can't pay.
You can't go to jail because you don't have the money to pay your tax bill, but you can go to jail for not filing. It's a criminal act, and you're not a criminal, so get that return in the mail."
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Hardship is a different issue.

roughdraft274 said:
You go for not filing, lying on your filing on purpose, purposefully not paying even if you have the money. That's why you see all those tax guys on tv saying "do you owe the IRS 20000 dollars? call me and I'll work it out with them". These guys wouldn't have jobs if they threw everyone in jail that owed them money, right?
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There are other options --- putting liens on property or homes, garnishment of wages, foreclosure or even eminent domain. There are a lot of things worse than jail.

roughdraft274 said:
You're just following the little talking points because throwing out the whole "go to jail for not buying insurance" makes Obama sound bad.
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Who's talking points - got a link?

Ever think if government does this for healthcare - what they'll do next that they believe you need? Maybe the next thing or the 4th or 5th thing you might not agree with for whatever reason. Too late then. Sorry, but I just don't buy into the whole "government knows best" brainwashing dialogue here. I know what's best for me and I want the choice - not a requirement / penalty up to and including jail. If I wanted that, I'd live somewhere else with a nice dictator or totalitarian world view.
 
The Prof said:
LOL!

thomas barthold works for breitbart?
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Don't play.

I was clearly referencing the article you just posted from Breitbart.com.

Why aren't you defending you're stance? Just came to the realization that you're wrong yet not man enough to admit it?
 
Ockham said:
Sounds like Hospitals problem, so why are they making it my problem?

Something I pay into to cover something is an HSA. What I pay now which is called "insurance" isn't, correct.

It's not separate since enforcement is dependent upon payment and the enforcement is left to the IRS. If the tax is not paid, by proxy payment lands one in jail if not paid.


IF it's not a loophole, then by not buying insurance, the final result is jail since the IRS procedures are BAU.

It could be on purpose - intent is irrelevant, the result is the issue.

Hardship is a different issue.

There are other options --- putting liens on property or homes, garnishment of wages, foreclosure or even eminent domain. There are a lot of things worse than jail.

Who's talking points - got a link?

Ever think if government does this for healthcare - what they'll do next that they believe you need? Maybe the next thing or the 4th or 5th thing you might not agree with for whatever reason. Too late then. Sorry, but I just don't buy into the whole "government knows best" brainwashing dialogue here. I know what's best for me and I want the choice - not a requirement / penalty up to and including jail. If I wanted that, I'd live somewhere else with a nice dictator or totalitarian world view.
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Ok then, we've reached an impasse. It all boils down to I think it's in our countries interest and well within the governments powers and you don't No use in talking beyond this since it's unlikely either of us are to change our minds on the issue of whether it's a good idea or not.
 
The Prof said:
because FOUR MILLION is quite a lot

or so suggests the ASSOCIATED PRESS

LOL!

Nearly 4M to pay health insurance penalty by 2016
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Once again avoiding the real issue.

You do a very good job on here as an entertainer. I have to assume that you're entire day centers around coming on here and throwing around LOL!'s to aggrivate people. I prefer to have a discussion like an adult, so don't expect another response from me.
 
that's nice

FOUR MILLION paying FINES is...

well, it's an awful LOT of FINES

don't YOU think?

LOL!

either way, OPINIONS as diverse as those belonging to ANDREW BREITBART (LOL!) and the ASSOCIATED PRESS sure seem to feel so
 
The Prof said:
that's nice

FOUR MILLION paying FINES is...

well, it's an awful LOT of FINES

don't YOU think?

LOL!
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What exactly was funny in your statement that caused you to "Laugh Out Loud!"?
 
i'll tell you what's funny

that a nobody from nevada can barter chickens for health care

and STILL lead the SITTING senate leader by double digits

LOL!
 
The Prof said:
i'll tell you what's funny

that a nobody from nevada can barter chickens for health care

and STILL lead the SITTING senate leader by double digits

LOL!
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That IS funny.

See, the GOP isn't the party of No. They have solutions. Like trading chickens.
 
Deuce said:
Actually this was clarified. She actually meant barter, not haggle.

(besides, people can already bargain with their doctor and do it all the time)
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My chiropractor gives me a discount when I bring in eggs and fresh/organic veggies and fruit from my garden. Hella deal.
 
Glinda said:
My chiropractor gives me a discount when I bring in eggs and fresh/organic veggies and fruit from my garden. Hella deal.
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You bend over with that back when you pick the veggies though?
 
misterman said:
You bend over with that back when you pick the veggies though?
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Well sure. :) He keeps me healthy so that I can grow things to keep him healthy. It's a win-win.
 
chevydriver1123 said:
I believe your missing the point, from how I see it, Lowden favors patients and doctors being able to bargain over costs.
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No I know that you and Lowden are missing the point. Something such as health care which can involve not just health but life vs death if way too important to "bargain with". Hope that you never had to deal with trying to save the life of a child. I did. Let me tell you no one who has any sanity what so ever would try to bargain or find the Wall MART doctor if youer child is termanally ill. You get what you believe is the best for your child and would you be standing there there and bargaining whether you will pay the docs in chickens or sheep ?

I do not know much about this Lowden woman buut if those staements are hers are any indication of her ability to reason or is indicaive of her policies I am ready to declare her a card carrying moron.
 
Deuce said:
Actually this was clarified. She actually meant barter, not haggle.

(besides, people can already bargain with their doctor and do it all the time)
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Still not very practical in year 2010 but if it was year 1020 the Doc or Witch Doctor might say "for 3 chickens I should take out your baldder, what !!!!such gall you have ".
 
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