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Thread: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

  1. #21
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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Caring or not caring for myself is up to me. How is it that the government now can tell me and penalize me for not doing what they say I should do, when I don't want to?
    Because if you don't take care of yourself, the rest of us end up doing it. So yes, we have an interest in this.

    So to summarize - it's still a penalty, it's still required, and jail is still possible in any/all cases.
    To summarize, you're wrong. Tax law does not work that way.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Because if you don't take care of yourself, the rest of us end up doing it. So yes, we have an interest in this.
    I'm not claiming no societal interest, I'm claiming no Constitutional foundation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    To summarize, you're wrong. Tax law does not work that way.
    Then explain why it doesn't work that way and be prepared to show examples.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #23
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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Don't lie.
    LOL!

    how can a person lie when all he does is post a link to senate finance committee chief of staff thomas barthold's handwritten letter to senator ensign stating that "the taxpayer may be charged with a misdemeanor with a penalty of up to $25,000 and not more than one year in jail?"

    http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Polit...old_letter.pdf

    I'm glad that people don't have much choice, just as I'm glad you have to buy car insurance. They should be responsible and get some insurance for themselves. I just had to learn my lesson the hard way when I was young and dumb.
    why do you think anyone around here cares what makes YOU glad?

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Caring or not caring for myself is up to me. How is it that the government now can tell me and penalize me for not doing what they say I should do, when I don't want to?
    Because you're added healthcare costs for not having insurance effects the whole country when we have people going to emergency rooms for minor things and racking up huge bills that they can't pay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I don't believe in it simply because Health Insurance isn't really insurance, it's a payment plan. Insurance is used only when something catastrophic occurs. Each time a small scratch is needed or a tune up of your car is required, you don't issue a claim on your Car insurance. Same way with Home Owners insurance... for if you did, you'd either be dropped or your premiums would skyrocket. However, at some point, we changed Health Care to now use insurance for every little thing, which is why the system and this bill is tantamount to polishing a turd.
    So a plan in which you pay into in order for it to cover something that may happen in the future isn't insurance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You can slice it any way you want, but it's a penalty. Don't do what I say, pay a tax, or go to jail. And who makes the determination about what is or is not "severe" - you didn't answer that one.
    Yea, it's a penalty. Not much point in writing a law that has no penalty and isn't enforceable. The point is though, it taxes you, it doesn't throw you in jail. If you don't pay your taxes then that's a separate matter all together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Well people don't go to jail or pay penalty's on anecdotal "I heard of people" ... so if it's not defined that means it's a loophole which means the loophole can be exploited whenever or with whomever the IRS sees fit. It might be what you define as "severe" or it might be a begnine mistake in which a person is being made an example. Who knows... since it's left ambiguous, that means it's suspect and could be exploited or used by whomever makes the decisions. Not a good method.
    It's not a loophole. The IRS still runs by whichever procedure it always has, this bill didn't change anything. The same thing happens regardless of what the taxes that didn't pay come from. I'm sure there's methods or rules in determining the penalties for not paying taxes, and going to jail is one of them, it's just not a common one.

    The idea that someone will make a beginners mistake and automatically be thrown in jail is ridiculous. It shows what you owe when you do your income tax. If it says you owe, you owe, if it doesn't you don't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So to summarize - it's still a penalty, it's still required, and jail is still possible in any/all cases.
    It's a tax (which I agree can easily be considered a penalty), not required since you can opt for the penalty but yes, either one is required, and jail is possible, in some cases, but only where you willfully don't pay and the IRS can prove it.

    IRS tax payments; income tax preparation and penalties; tax debts - MSN Money

    "It's getting on April 15. You've finished your return, and you're still in shock. You made a lot of money and paid a lot of bills. But now you're looking at a tax bill that you just can't afford to pay.
    Relax. You're not alone, and your plight is not unusual. Moreover, you're not going to jail. There are criminal penalties if the Internal Revenue Service can prove (the burden of proof is on the agency) that you intentionally didn't pay your taxes, but we'll assume that's not the case here. You just ran low on cash, and nobody goes to jail just because they owe money -- even to the IRS.
    Your return is done -- that's how you know the magnitude of your debt. Send it in. Don't hold it just because you owe money that you can't pay.
    You can't go to jail because you don't have the money to pay your tax bill, but you can go to jail for not filing. It's a criminal act, and you're not a criminal, so get that return in the mail."
    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    That's the point - it doesn't say so. Since it goes to the IRS, you must pay a tax. What happens if you don't pay a Tax with the IRS? You're audited, fined and if you don't pay your fines, you go to jail. It's business as usual process for the IRS since they are the enforcement arm of the penalty.
    You don't go to jail for not paying fines, if you honestly can't afford them. You go for not filing, lying on your filing on purpose, purposefully not paying even if you have the money. That's why you see all those tax guys on tv saying "do you owe the IRS 20000 dollars? call me and I'll work it out with them". These guys wouldn't have jobs if they threw everyone in jail that owed them money, right?

    You're just following the little talking points because throwing out the whole "go to jail for not buying insurance" makes Obama sound bad.

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    LOL!

    how can a person lie when all he does is post a link to senate finance committee chief of staff thomas barthold's handwritten letter to senator ensign stating that "the taxpayer may be charged with a misdemeanor with a penalty of up to $25,000 and not more than one year in jail?"

    http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Polit...old_letter.pdf



    why do you think anyone around here cares what makes YOU glad?
    Read the letter. It says you can go to jail for not filing or for willfully not paying taxes even though you can afford it. If you simply can't afford it then there is no jail time.

    Also, I was just sating my opinion. Obviously you cared about it enough to reply to me about it, thus making you're question rather silly, but i wouldn't expect any less from you.

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    I believe your missing the point, from how I see it, Lowden favors patients and doctors being able to bargain over costs.
    But insurance companies are the ones paying for most of the costs, and they already negotiate costs with providers now.

  7. #27
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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What counts as "severe" and where is that defined in the bill exactly?

    Car insurance requires a car, of which purchasing one is a choice. Health Insurance has no choice. You see the difference I hope.
    Most states require that you insure your vehicle to drive on their roads with it. If you do not do so, then that state will levy a fine against you, in some cases impound your vehicle, and if you don't pay the fine you could be actually do some time in the county jail for it.

    The United States will now require that individuals carry health insurance when residing in the United States. If you cannot afford insurance, there will be subsidies to help you purchase it. If you can afford it, yet choose not to purchase coverage, then you will face an income tax penalty for that filing year. If you don't pay that tax penalty, nothing will happen to you. The government cannot file a lien against you for not paying it, and you won't face any criminal charges at all for not paying it.

    So yeah, there is a big difference here. In the case of car insurance, states levy fines and possible jail time against you for not having it. Which the state has the power to do. In the case of health insurance, you could in some circumstances pay a tax penalty for not having it, which the federal government certainly has the power to levy income taxes as it sees fit.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Read the letter. It says you can go to jail for not filing or for willfully not paying taxes even though you can afford it. If you simply can't afford it then there is no jail time.
    barthold's letter says nothing about affordability, don't lie

    Also, I was just sating my opinion.
    opinions are worthless

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    barthold's letter says nothing about affordability, don't lie



    opinions are worthless
    It says if you willfully don't pay your taxes. What do you think that means? Can you give me your interpretation of that?

    I still don't get why you're panties are in a wad because I stated what I thought. Seems like you're just trying to start crap. That's the only reason i could see that anyone would come onto a forum and say that they don't care what people think and that opinions are worthless.

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    how many of the FOUR MILLION will ultimately prove to be WILLFUL?

    Nearly 4M to pay health insurance penalty by 2016

    it's just a QUESTION

    LOL!

    opinions are worthless

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