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Thread: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

  1. #11
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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Not really equitable bargaining positions. People need a doctor more than a doctor needs any individual patient.
    True, but I wouldn't really call it haggling. Most doctors are nice people that will help you out.

    My first year of college I dropped my parent's insurance on me to save them money and got a part time job with insurance, not great insurance, but at least I was covered. They told me that I either had to sign on full time or they'd have to let me go, so they let me go and I went looking for another job. Two months later, i was working a job with no insurance and was telling my parents to throw me back on their insurance and I'll just reimburse them for cost, but before they did I got appendicitis and had surgery and that was right after having two very infected ingrown toenails taken out.

    I called three podiatrists, explained to each my situation and asked how the price was if I could pay cash before hand, all of them went pretty low but the last one said to come in and he'd do it at cost to help out a college kid. Ended up paying right around 60 bucks for the whole thing, plus purchasing some antibiotics.

    The appendectomy totaled out to about 25,000 after I got all the separate doctor bills in, but after working with all of them, one of them dropped the charges (the anesthesiology team dropped the entire 750 I owed them), my surgeon went from 4000 down to 1000 if I signed a letter promising monthly payments and the hospital let me fill out a hardship form cutting their totals from nearly 20000 (for only 1 very short night in the hospital mind you) down to 6500 with a guarantee of monthly payments. It was tough to work it all off and pay for it on top of college costs and living expenses but I managed to pay it off around the same time I graduated.

    I'll never go a day without insurance if there's anything I can do to help it, lol.

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Truth am stranger than fiction !!!
    and yet she's beating the sitting MAJORITY LEADER OF THE US SENATE by double digits

    RealClearPolitics - Election 2010 - Nevada Senate - Lowden vs. Reid

    ie, it's that bad

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I'll never go a day without insurance if there's anything I can do to help it, lol.
    you don't really have much choice

    Buy Insurance or Go to Jail? - The Note

    Nearly 4M to pay health insurance penalty by 2016

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Could you imagine the chaos on talk radio, bashing obama if he suggested that trying to barter chickens for healthcare was his plan to reform healthcare?

    He got bashed for suggesting that properly inflating yor tires will help your gas mileage...
    Thank you. Yes, I remember the tire gauges they handed out a a joke, but the fact was, NASCAR supported it as a legitimate factor in saving gas.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Actually this was clarified. She actually meant barter, not haggle.

    (besides, people can already bargain with their doctor and do it all the time)
    She tripled down on the idea, stating it once. Then her PR people confirmed it and she re-iterated it again.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We can’t get lost in discrimination. We can’t get lost in B.S. We can’t get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    Don't lie. If you don't buy insurance you don't get a deduction for the excise tax imposed for healthcare. Then, if you don't pay your taxes you will be punished (only in severe cases does anyone go to jail.) But you don't go to jail for not having insurance.

    Also, I'm glad that people don't have much choice, just as I'm glad you have to buy car insurance. They should be responsible and get some insurance for themselves. I just had to learn my lesson the hard way when I was young and dumb.

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Thank you. Yes, I remember the tire gauges they handed out a a joke, but the fact was, NASCAR supported it as a legitimate factor in saving gas.
    Well, really only an idiot would suggest otherwise. I'd love to see some republicans rolling around in a car with half-flat tires. I bet they'd stop to fill them up with air. They aren't that stupid, they know the truth, they just don't care to be honest if it fits their political narrative, not that this is a strictly Republican trait or anything.

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Don't lie. If you don't buy insurance you don't get a deduction for the excise tax imposed for healthcare. Then, if you don't pay your taxes you will be punished (only in severe cases does anyone go to jail.) But you don't go to jail for not having insurance.
    What counts as "severe" and where is that defined in the bill exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Also, I'm glad that people don't have much choice, just as I'm glad you have to buy car insurance. They should be responsible and get some insurance for themselves. I just had to learn my lesson the hard way when I was young and dumb.
    Car insurance requires a car, of which purchasing one is a choice. Health Insurance has no choice. You see the difference I hope.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What counts as "severe" and where is that defined in the bill exactly?

    Car insurance requires a car, of which purchasing one is a choice. Health Insurance has no choice. You see the difference I hope.
    Of course I see the difference, but I don't know how it dissolves you of the personal responsibility of caring for yourself. Hell, even Republicans used to believe in this idea until they thought that being against it would help them get back in office. They gladly went against a policy that many of them thought at one time would help americans to being against it at the potential expense of tax payers lives all for political gain.

    Also, why would anything about policy on jail time for failure to pay taxes be in the healthcare bill? It simply says that you will have to pay the excise tax if you don't buy insurance.

    I meant severe as in I've only heard of people going to jail for owing hundreds of thousands in back taxes. No where near the amount of the excise tax on healthcare coverage.

    If you believe you can be put in jail for not having health insurance simply point out where it says so. Or even where it says that the gov't can do anything to punish you. You won't find it. The only thing you'll find is the tax.

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Well, really only an idiot would suggest otherwise. I'd love to see some republicans rolling around in a car with half-flat tires. I bet they'd stop to fill them up with air. They aren't that stupid, they know the truth, they just don't care to be honest if it fits their political narrative, not that this is a strictly Republican trait or anything.

    That's the truth right there, both sides are guilty of it. Though in this case, Lowden confirmed, this is the truth of her proposal.
    I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
    This is the important stuff. We can’t get lost in discrimination. We can’t get lost in B.S. We can’t get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.
    Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

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    Re: Sue Lowden Stands by Chicken Health Care Barter Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Of course I see the difference, but I don't know how it dissolves you of the personal responsibility of caring for yourself.
    Caring or not caring for myself is up to me. How is it that the government now can tell me and penalize me for not doing what they say I should do, when I don't want to?

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Hell, even Republicans used to believe in this idea until they thought that being against it would help them get back in office. They gladly went against a policy that many of them thought at one time would help americans to being against it at the potential expense of tax payers lives all for political gain.
    I don't believe in it simply because Health Insurance isn't really insurance, it's a payment plan. Insurance is used only when something catastrophic occurs. Each time a small scratch is needed or a tune up of your car is required, you don't issue a claim on your Car insurance. Same way with Home Owners insurance... for if you did, you'd either be dropped or your premiums would skyrocket. However, at some point, we changed Health Care to now use insurance for every little thing, which is why the system and this bill is tantamount to polishing a turd.

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Also, why would anything about policy on jail time for failure to pay taxes be in the healthcare bill? It simply says that you will have to pay the excise tax if you don't buy insurance.
    You can slice it any way you want, but it's a penalty. Don't do what I say, pay a tax, or go to jail. And who makes the determination about what is or is not "severe" - you didn't answer that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I meant severe as in I've only heard of people going to jail for owing hundreds of thousands in back taxes. No where near the amount of the excise tax on healthcare coverage.
    Well people don't go to jail or pay penalty's on anecdotal "I heard of people" ... so if it's not defined that means it's a loophole which means the loophole can be exploited whenever or with whomever the IRS sees fit. It might be what you define as "severe" or it might be a begnine mistake in which a person is being made an example. Who knows... since it's left ambiguous, that means it's suspect and could be exploited or used by whomever makes the decisions. Not a good method.

    So to summarize - it's still a penalty, it's still required, and jail is still possible in any/all cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    If you believe you can be put in jail for not having health insurance simply point out where it says so. Or even where it says that the gov't can do anything to punish you. You won't find it. The only thing you'll find is the tax.
    That's the point - it doesn't say so. Since it goes to the IRS, you must pay a tax. What happens if you don't pay a Tax with the IRS? You're audited, fined and if you don't pay your fines, you go to jail. It's business as usual process for the IRS since they are the enforcement arm of the penalty.
    Last edited by Ockham; 04-23-10 at 12:09 PM.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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