• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama suggests value-added tax may be an option

"...Michael Linden, associate director of tax and budget policy at the Center for American Progress. 'Having a VAT replace income tax entirely is a terrible idea,' he said. 'If VAT becomes a solution it will have to be part of a larger tax system, ideally part of a larger tax reform effort.'”

"Since VAT is a tax on consumption rather than income or investments, it’s considered a regressive tax. Poor people, who tend to spend a higher percentage of their income than wealthier ones, are disproportionately affected by consumption-based taxes. In the U.S., regressive sales taxes are balanced out by a progressive income tax structure."

"Left-leaning think tanks such as the Center for American Progress express concern that adding a VAT to the country’s existing tax code or using it to replace the majority of the income tax, as Michael Graetz, Columbia University School of Law professor ... proposed to the Senate Finance Committee in 2008, would tip the balance in favor of the rich and drop a staggering weight on an already-struggling demographic."

With VAT Tax on the Table, Progressives Sound Alarm The Washington Independent

It seems to me that replacing the income tax with a VAT is even worse for the lower-income bracket then just adding the VAT. The lower-income people will pay the same flat tax in a VAT, but that flat tax will be a bigger percentage of their income compared to the upper class.

No matter how it is looked at, VAT is a bigger burden on lower-income people, whether it is replacing the income tax or not.
 
Last edited:
The Messiah and the Democrats support VAT because it's a hidden tax, and hidden taxes are wonderful for doing political favors with, and wonderful because it can be raised and no one notices until it's too late.

The Dems also love VAT because it will be a massive tax hike on the poor, who they hate.

Not one thing good can be said about VAT.

Drains money out of the economy, raises expenses for the poor, and everyone else, kills jobs, creates bureaucratic hassles for businesses, expands government, and will decrease net revenues.

All in all, VAT is wonderful for Europe, precisely because of what I just said it does.

The US should be looking towards a complete elimination of capital gains taxes on all levels, it should be looking at elimination of corporate taxes, and it should be looking to completely eliminate numerous government agencies that serve no function under the Constitution.

But that's only if you want the US to survive and thrive.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
stop whining.


Did you get a rebate in 2008? 2009?


So Obama just kept the same thing going? he did not "cut" taxes. He simply kept the status quo.


It amazes me how people follow the newspeak of our government officials.... By your logic, you can claim year after year, he's cutting new taxes, and you wont see a dime more.
Click to expand...
So by your logic if Obama wouldn't have given a rebate this year then he would have raised taxes?

I just don't think you're being honest. They passed a one time rebate in 2008. If it said a rebate in 2008 and one in 2009 then yes, Obama would have been keeping the status quo cause he didn't have to do anything, he just let the existing rebate stay. If he and his congress actually had to add it in there though then it's his work and his tax cut.

And besides, many conservative on here are complaining about how he would LOVE to raise taxes, but when given the chance to just sit on his thumb and do nothing, (and by your logic) raise taxes by not give everyone the rebate, he and the congress chose to give the rebate. Regardless of how you look at it it pokes holes in the concept that he's just sitting around thinking of ways to raise taxes and ruin your entire life.
 
MrVicchio said:
Obama suggests value-added tax may be an option - Yahoo! News

So much for the "No taxes on middle class" pledge. He'll push it. Mostly because the man has ZERO grasp on how a free market economy works... or he DOES and... well let's assume he's really not like that eh?
Click to expand...

LOL...

Enjoy folks.

I guarantee some companies are looking hard at moving overseas.
You cannot compete with this burden.

The beauty of the global economy. Here today, gone tomorrow.

Obama is orchestrating the blows to bring down America.
Too bad for those who don't want to or find it difficult to leave.

.
 
Alvin T. Grey said:
Companies are VAT exempt. Us Europeans have it. We do fine.
Click to expand...

You do fine? LOL.

Tell that to the Krauts. They lose a couple thousand jobs and Merkel gets involved, and politicians start a campaign against the company. The same thing happened near Nurnberg. They freak when a company decides to move because they cannot survive in western Europe.

That's the spirit needed to promote business in the country.

They do fine though. The workers too. That VAT and all the other burdens did them well.

VAT, GST... another burden that makes Asia more attractive. Skinware there is cheaper and MORE productive.

.
 
zimmer said:
VAT, GST... another burden that makes Asia more attractive. Skinware there is cheaper and MORE productive.

.
Click to expand...

Why don't you draw us a cartoon about Wal-Mart factories in China using little kids to make the pens you use to draw your 3rd rate comics? Companies like Wal-Mart see China as very attractive because of stuff like that.
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
The Messiah and the Democrats support VAT because it's a hidden tax, and hidden taxes are wonderful for doing political favors with, and wonderful because it can be raised and no one notices until it's too late.

The Dems also love VAT because it will be a massive tax hike on the poor, who they hate.

Not one thing good can be said about VAT.

Drains money out of the economy, raises expenses for the poor, and everyone else, kills jobs, creates bureaucratic hassles for businesses, expands government, and will decrease net revenues.

All in all, VAT is wonderful for Europe, precisely because of what I just said it does.

The US should be looking towards a complete elimination of capital gains taxes on all levels, it should be looking at elimination of corporate taxes, and it should be looking to completely eliminate numerous government agencies that serve no function under the Constitution.

But that's only if you want the US to survive and thrive.
Click to expand...

Is there a lamer argument (coming from the left) than "the United States is the only first world nation that does not have_______"

A VAT

Socialized medicine

Gun bans

etc
 
Hatuey said:
Why don't you draw us a cartoon about Wal-Mart factories in China using little kids to make the pens you use to draw your 3rd rate comics? Companies like Wal-Mart see China as very attractive because of stuff like that.
Click to expand...

if the Chinese are happy with the arrangement who are you to dictate their labor policies?
 
NoJingoLingo said:
So if I understand the rightwingers in this thread, Obama isn't allowed to think about all options to fix our deficits and he's definitely not allowed to say he's thinking about all options? Sheesh, you righties go straight to hyperbole as if the Pres. had stated he was implementing a VAT. :roll:
Click to expand...

If he spends 6 trillion dollars in one year, how can you ever say he is trying to fix our deficits? Is this some part of the "New Math" I've heard about? :roll:
 
Another nice thing brought to you by this benevolent administration....... a new, in 2012, 3.8% tax on all GROSS real estate transactions.

That's right kids.. sell your house for $200,000, Barry will want $7,600 right off the top.

And you think there are a bunch of home owners under water now?

BTW….. That will be on top of the 30% capital gains in 2012. I know, you say you don’t have to pay capital gains when you sell your principal residence……….. Wrong!!! Barry is taking that exemption away too.

Every body happier now? Let’s all hear it for Barry!!!!!!!!!
 
Last edited:
Borrow and spend, then tax. Predictable.
 
Crunch said:
If he spends 6 trillion dollars in one year, how can you ever say he is trying to fix our deficits? Is this some part of the "New Math" I've heard about? :roll:
Click to expand...

This is just another classic example of why people have begun tuning out "so called" conservatives.

Please show me $6 trillion in spending in 2009. :roll:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Now I'm no accountant. But lets discuss this.... He borrowed our money in this stimulous, to take some of said money and give it back to us?
Click to expand...

Lets try for some accuracy. There is no "he", as it was an act of Congress which was sponsored by the President. I am unaware of your understanding in regards to the macro economy. One of the characteristics in a deflationary recession is a sizable decrease in monetary velocity (that is dollar turnover has diminished). As income increases, so does the percentage make up of ones discretionary income income (after all the bills are paid). Given that consumers who make under $250k have a greater percentage of their income going towards discretionary spending, they naturally have a higher propensity to consume. Therefore, tax rebates to lower income individuals enacted under the label of stimulus will have a much higher multiplier effect than tax rebates to the higher income brackets. Why? Dollar for dollar, lower income classes spend more of their disposable income on consumption which is critical for an increase in both monetary velocity and aggregate demand. People who saved the rebate checks did not stimulate the economy, which is why tax cuts/rebates for an indebted consumer will not be nearly as stimulative as effective fiscal policy.

I also wonder if anyone wonders, He gave banks our money so they can lend it back to us with interest? :ssst:
Click to expand...

Obama did not give banks money. Do not get it twisted, FDIC banks are flush with excess reserves. However, Obama has nothing to do with monetary policy.
 
MrVicchio said:
Obama suggests value-added tax may be an option - Yahoo! News

So much for the "No taxes on middle class" pledge. He'll push it. Mostly because the man has ZERO grasp on how a free market economy works... or he DOES and... well let's assume he's really not like that eh?
Click to expand...

If he gets rid of the income tax, or dramatically cuts then I don't the problem. Even Peter Schiff conceded on his blog that a consumption tax would be a preferable option over an income tax.
 
Hatuey said:
Why don't you draw us a cartoon about Wal-Mart factories in China using little kids to make the pens you use to draw your 3rd rate comics? Companies like Wal-Mart see China as very attractive because of stuff like that.
Click to expand...

Sorry, so sorry.
Powered by Wacom.

Hat,
I'm glad You don't like them.

Kiitos.

.
 
Australianlibertarian said:
If he gets rid of the income tax, or dramatically cuts then I don't the problem. Even Peter Schiff conceded on his blog that a consumption tax would be a preferable option over an income tax.
Click to expand...

Consumption taxation is regressive. Maybe if income taxes were eliminated for those earning less than $50k/yr, and then marginally phased in to say 35% capping at $10 million, such an idea could be both stimulative and fiscally feasible.
 
bicycleman said:
But you are assming he's thinking, when his track record doesn't show that.
Click to expand...

Now there's a brilliant argument. You've got some foam there on the corner of your mouth...:roll:
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
A rebate is a tax cut. You are arguing semantics. If you pay less in taxes than you otherwise would, that is a cut.
Click to expand...

No tax cut. Only the W4 form was manipulated to make us take home more. In my case, a paltry extra $15.
 
NoJingoLingo said:
Now there's a brilliant argument. You've got some foam there on the corner of your mouth...:roll:
Click to expand...

Actually he's right.

Exactly how many broken promises is Obama up to?
 
Bassman said:
As they should be. a VAT would effectively kill off any economic growth and expansion. But then again, as any goodie-two-shoes Liberal, you'd love to see more people on the welfare roles as businesses shutter their doors for good!
Click to expand...

OMG I didn't know that Libruls want to see more people on welfare and businesses to close !! Now if that is true wouldn't the Libruls have thought it out and realized that if more and more businesses close there would be less people working hense less people paying taxes then there would be less money to keep people on welfare ? You may want to ask them thar Libruls again to get the real story from them.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
But yes, we Tea Party types are paranoid about Obama raising taxes. :ssst:



A VAT tax is the worst idea in this already overtaxed nation.
Click to expand...

Why we try something really novel and state an honest Tea P opinion - "no taxes are any good at any time any where at any level "

Seriously, no one likes taxes but everyone wants services and better want a military defense and police and fire departments border guards and taking care of all of those Veterans that our little magnetic ribbons proclaim that we all support, and SPACE program, etc

so how are we to fund all of that ?
 
MrVicchio said:
Obama suggests value-added tax may be an option - Yahoo! News

So much for the "No taxes on middle class" pledge. He'll push it. Mostly because the man has ZERO grasp on how a free market economy works... or he DOES and... well let's assume he's really not like that eh?
Click to expand...

See, the thing is....every person reading this thread knows that President Obama has a better a understanding of economics, theory and practice, than you, Mr.Vicchio, will ever have.

If you want to convince us otherwise, explain why the suggestion made by the President is a bad one or a good one. That's how this works. Just posting and making pithy comments is worthless. Make an honest effort and show us your brilliance...:roll::roll:

Or just keep reposing the latest story you found on Drudge, keeping in mind that doesn't make you sound more intelligent -- it just highlights the whole partisan hack thing...
 
hazlnut said:
See, the thing is....every person reading this thread knows that President Obama has a better a understanding of economics, theory and practice, than you, Mr.Vicchio, will ever have.
Click to expand...

I don't. In fact, I don't have much confidence Obama has an understanding of much at all and certainly if he does, it's nothing in practice at all.

hazlnut said:
If you want to convince us otherwise, explain why the suggestion made by the President is a bad one or a good one. That's how this works. Just posting and making pithy comments is worthless. Make an honest effort and show us your brilliance...
Click to expand...
Interesting such a statement coming from you. I smell a trap.

hazlnut said:
Or just keep reposing the latest story you found on Drudge, keeping in mind that doesn't make you sound more intelligent -- it just highlights the whole partisan hack thing...
Click to expand...
Funny, Drudge reposts links not content. And haz... your the king of partisan hack. Do you really want the kettle/pot comparison?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom