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Thread: GM Pays off its Bailout Loans

  1. #41
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    Re: GM Pays off its Bailout Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Its good that they paid off their "loan" portion. Regardless of the tricks, that's good.

    However it is also irresponsable journalism (and the type that if Fox News was doing it many on the left would be screaming "PROPOGANDA!" at the top of their lungs) to imply or act in articles as if simply paying off the loan makes GM essentially equal now in regards to the money the Government gave them.

    They paid back less that 20% of what was owned and the Government still holds equity in a private company. Yes, its wonderful they've managed to pay back the 7 that they did and kudos for them to it. However I'm sorry if I'm not going to throw a parade or excuse a misleading news story simply because they paid back less than 20% they were given.
    It appears to me that everyone is under the false impression that GM is intending to "pay back" the government for the part of GM that the taxpayers now own. In a sense, the taxpayers have already been 'paid back' for the 47 billion. We have been paid in preferred and common shares. More strictly speaking, we bought part of the company.

    When we sell our shares of GM, it is unlikely that GM will be the entity that purchases them from us. They will more likely be bought by the usual purchasers of stocks: individuals, mutual funds, etc. There is a chance that we will sell the shares at a higher price than we paid for them.

    It is not "propaganda" to state that GM has repaid it's loan, as long as the article states that more money was used to bail out GM. And, by golly, it does!

    But the loan money is only a fraction of the financial support that the federal government gave to GM over the past 12 months to stop it from going out of business.

    Overall, GM received $50 billion in federal help. In return, the government got $2 billion in preferred stock and 61% of the company's privately held common shares.
    Taxpayers could recoup money from a possible sale of GM stock to the public [on the stock market] in the future.
    And the fact remains that GM is ahead of schedule in repaying the loan.

    It would be propaganda to state that GM still owes money, especially without explaining that we taxpayers own part of the company until we sell the stock.

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    Re: GM Pays off its Bailout Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, that is factually incorrect. They traded equity for the other 43b. They borrowed 7b, which they have now paid back.
    That 43 billion came from the government, period.

    There are no fancy tricks that take away from the fact the money came from the government and the government only.
    Last edited by texmaster; 04-22-10 at 04:40 PM.
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    Re: GM Pays off its Bailout Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    That 43 billion came from the government, period.

    There are no fancy tricks that take away from the fact the money came from the government and the government only.
    And no one is arguing that. However, the government gave GM ~7b in loans, which has been paid off. The article and OP are factually correct.
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    Re: GM Pays off its Bailout Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Not really. Most of what we gave to GM is now called equity so let's not ahead of ourselves. Also there is a huge loan to GMAC which we were told had to be bailed out along with GM.

    Very doubtful the GMAC loan will be fully repaid or that we will make money on the GM equity.

    The only part of the deal which made the country money is the one Obama and team like to berate, the banks.
    Actually, the gov't is likely to do quite well on the equity when the New GM has its IPO later this year....

    As to the taxpayers getting their money back... they actually are in the same manner they "lost it". Taxpayers were outraged with the "bailout", which was largely done with the government turning on the printing press. Now that it has been repaid, those "outraged" taxpayers owe those that had to deal with this "outrage" equivalent silence as the government is just not out the money. In fact, the overall $800B bailout of banks and the automakers is actually down to a $80B bailout... so all those that told us how the sky is falling can just calm down.

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    Re: GM Pays off its Bailout Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    I'm not so sure about that...

    If a company of that size DOES manage to fail, there's only ONE reason... Simply, these companies collapsed under the weight of their own corruption.

    If those 'too big to fail' companies failed... wouldn't that FORCE the american people to return to an entrepreneurial spirit, which would then spark it's own wave of innovation??
    Yes- that's what we need. We are drowning in our own lethargy and indebtedness.

    Like I said, we are producing very little, and consuming much. We need to produce and consume in a more balanced manner. New entrepeneurial innovations without the "old blood" dragging on the system is a good thing imo. We are, in effect, trying to save dinosaurs.
    Last edited by lizzie; 04-22-10 at 11:31 PM.
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    Re: GM Pays off its Bailout Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't disagree with you, but we have to be willing to let all the support business also fail. It would be painful, and it would hurt a lot of working people. Do you believe politicians would not be blamed for the fallout?
    Yes, it would be painful, but in the long run, if we don't come to some kind of grip on what we are doing, it will be a slow painful death. As for politicians, I don't frankly care if they are blamed. They certainly had their part to play in this screwed up mess we've gotten ourselves into.
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    Re: GM Pays off its Bailout Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And no one is arguing that. However, the government gave GM ~7b in loans, which has been paid off. The article and OP are factually correct.
    Again, No it is not.

    They only paid back part of the loan.

    Loan- An arrangement in which a lender gives money or property to a borrower, and the borrower agrees to return the property or repay the money, usually along with interest, at some future point(s) in time.

    loan Definition

    So again it is not factually correct they paid back the loan. Just because the government was stupid enough to give them interest free money that doesn't change the fact it is still a loan and 43 Billion has not been paid back.
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    Re: GM Pays off its Bailout Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Actually, the gov't is likely to do quite well on the equity when the New GM has its IPO later this year....

    .
    Do you have a basis for this comment? What percent equity stake does the government have, what would the market cap have to be for the government to do quite well?

    If you do not have the answers to these questions, please tell the forum so that we can understand where you are coming from.

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    Re: GM Pays off its Bailout Loans

    With all the bail-out money out there, wouldn't it be funny if they paid back some bail-out money with more bail-out money?

    ...actually that is what may have happened:

    "It appears to be nothing more than an elaborate TARP money shuffle,"

    FOXNews.com - Grassley Slams GM, Administration Over Loans Repaid With Bailout Money

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    Re: GM Pays off its Bailout Loans

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    That 43 billion came from the government, period.

    There are no fancy tricks that take away from the fact the money came from the government and the government only.
    And, there is no changing the fact that the government will eventually sell the part of GM that we now own, and will recover most, perhaps all and then some, of the money that we spent in purchasing part of GM.


    You people just don't want other people to realize that the bailouts, in all the forms they came in, have gone generally well, and that they saved us all from abject misery. Cuz that would affect the upcoming elections.

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