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Thread: Gun rights advocates rally in Washington, Virginia

  1. #281
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Gun rights advocates rally in Washington, Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Granted. It's a very handy term though.

    Sheep aren't all that bright. They tend to engage in group-think. They tend to run whichever way the herd runs, even if they don't know why or if it is a good idea. They don't give much thought to anything beyond their herd, food, drink, and sex... and tend to take those for granted.

    Seems to describe a lot of human beings.
    worried about wolves and envious of well-fanged sheep dogs, sheep gladly trade the small chance of being wolf bait on the range for the security and comfort of the farmer's pens==a nice environment where food is plenty, the wolves are kept out and the dogs are never seen

    Of course when the farmer wants some wool or mutton--well a sheep might get away from the wolf but never the farmer.



  2. #282
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Gun rights advocates rally in Washington, Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No, you aren't restrained from buying a gun due to a background check, unless you fail it.
    False.
    You cannot exercise the right until you undergo the check, which is based on the premise that you might be breaking the law when trying to buy the gun. Once it is determined that you aren't dong anything illegal, you are allowed to buy the gun.

    This is no different than th government preventing the publishing of a new story on the premise that it might contain slaner/libel, and then allowing the publication after no libel/slander is found.

    Thus, it is prior restraint.

  3. #283
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    Re: Gun rights advocates rally in Washington, Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    False.
    You cannot exercise the right until you undergo the check, which is based on the premise that you might be breaking the law when trying to buy the gun. Once it is determined that you aren't dong anything illegal, you are allowed to buy the gun.

    This is no different than preventing the publishing of a new story on the premise that it might contain slaner/libel, and then allowinf the publication after no libel/slander is found.

    Thus, it is prior restraint.
    But there is no criminal law against libel or slander, nor can there be. There are criminal laws against gun posession by certain people.

    Is checking an ID before you vote also prior restraint of the right to vote?

  4. #284
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Gun rights advocates rally in Washington, Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Those are different things. Those aren't prior restraint, they're just restraint. Assuming those regulations are constitutional...
    Big assumption, as they are preconditions to a right not inherent to same, are not a compeling statre interest, and not the least restrictive means of achieving that interest.

    It's simply verifying. If you're under 18 and can't vote yet, it's not prior restraint on the right to vote to check your ID beforehand...
    Yes... but verifying your ID not the same thing as a background check.

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    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Gun rights advocates rally in Washington, Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    But there is no criminal law against libel or slander, nor can there be. There are criminal laws against gun posession by certain people.
    So? This does nothing to negate what I said; background checks are indeed a form of prior restraint.

    Prior restraint covers more than libel/slander, BTW -- those were just examples that I picked.

  6. #286
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    Re: Gun rights advocates rally in Washington, Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes... but verifying your ID not the same thing as a background check.
    Pretty much. It's a verification that you are legally entitled to something.

  7. #287
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: Gun rights advocates rally in Washington, Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Pretty much. It's a verification that you are legally entitled to something.
    No.,. its a verification that you are who you say you are, and nothing more. In no way does it make any determination that you arent trying to do something illegal.

  8. #288
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    Re: Gun rights advocates rally in Washington, Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No.,. its a verification that you are who you say you are, and nothing more. In no way does it make any determination that you arent trying to do something illegal.
    Right. It verifies that you are legally entitled to something. In the case of voting rights, it verifies that you are who are - because the state already has your data on file in the voter registration rolls.

    We could do the same for guns, and have a big database showing who is already legally entitled to a gun, but the NRA would freak out about it.

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    Re: Gun rights advocates rally in Washington, Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Right. It verifies that you are legally entitled to something.
    No.... -that- is an extra step. That step is where prior restraint comes in, and background checks certainly fall under that.

    The equivocation you're trying to argue here in no way negates the argument that background checks are a form or prior restraint.

  10. #290
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    Re: Gun rights advocates rally in Washington, Virginia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    No.... -that- is an extra step. That step is where prior restraint comes in, and background checks certainly fall under that.

    The equivocation you're trying to argue here in no way negates the argument that background checks are a form or prior restraint.
    If so, so is checking your ID before you vote though.

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