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Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

It will never be practical to colonize other planets. Suns that may possibly have inhabitable planets are many light years away. Colonizing the galaxy is no solution for overpopulation of the Earth.
 
Wiseone said:
And it'll still be there when we cure cancer, solve homelessness, build gas-free cars, etc etc etc. There's never going to be a time we when we have nothing left to do.
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It's a lot like personal finances. It really sucks when you have a hot investment tip and no liquid assets to invest. That doesn't mean you charge it on your credit card.

I agree with you that space exploration is an important field. I do not agree that it is so vital it should be "charged" to the nation's credit card.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
It will never be practical to colonize other planets. Suns that may possibly have inhabitable planets are many light years away. Colonizing the galaxy is no solution for overpopulation of the Earth.
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Actually, it is, and it would also ensure survival of the species should something catastrophic happen to the Earth, like a major asteroid impact.

But going to your point of overpopulation, how many people should be allowed to live on the Earth, and if the current population is greater than that number, how do you propose the population be reduced to meet that ideal?
 
**** entitlements.
 
Kelzie said:
It's a lot like personal finances. It really sucks when you have a hot investment tip and no liquid assets to invest. That doesn't mean you charge it on your credit card.

I agree with you that space exploration is an important field. I do not agree that it is so vital it should be "charged" to the nation's credit card.
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If it's important, then we need to find a way to pay for it. If entitlements and ridiculous government programs are more important, then I hope we stay on friendly terms with the Russians and Chinese so we can occasionally catch a ride into space.
 
Moon said:
Actually, it is, and it would also ensure survival of the species should something catastrophic happen to the Earth, like a major asteroid impact.

But going to your point of overpopulation, how many people should be allowed to live on the Earth, and if the current population is greater than that number, how do you propose the population be reduced to meet that ideal?
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Nature has a way of taking care of overpopulation of species, as painful as that remedy sounds. We are a part of nature, ultimately. If we want to avoid that, we need to limit population growth. If we don't, many will suffer.

As far as survival of the human race? All things must pass. The human race will one day be extinct. Our species' fate is, and always will be, dependent on the health and bounty of the planet Earth.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
Nature has a way of taking care of overpopulation of species, as painful as that remedy sounds. We are a part of nature, ultimately. If we want to avoid that, we need to limit population growth. If we don't, many will suffer.

As far as survival of the human race? All things must pass. The human race will one day be extinct. Our species' fate is, and always will be, dependent on the health and bounty of the planet Earth.
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How do we do that? Be specific.
 
Moon said:
If it's important, then we need to find a way to pay for it. If entitlements and ridiculous government programs are more important, then I hope we stay on friendly terms with the Russians and Chinese so we can occasionally catch a ride into space.
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A lot of things are important. That doesn't mean they're vital. When we're running a deficit, be it national or personal, only vital expenses should be included in your budget. When we start running a surplus again, that's when we can start bringing the "important" stuff back on line.

At least, that's how fiscal responsibility seems to me.
 
Moon said:
How do we do that? Be specific.
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It's not going to happen. There are too many horny people on the Earth. Inevitably we will face widespread food and water shortages, probably in this century.

Space exploration will do nothing to prevent that.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
It's not going to happen. There are too many horny people on the Earth. Inevitably we will face widespread food and water shortages, probably in this century.

Space exploration will do nothing to prevent that.
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How myopic and depressing. I'm really not sure how you can force yourself to go on knowing it's all pointless and we're all going to die soon. :roll:
 
Moon said:
How myopic and depressing. I'm really not sure how you can force yourself to go on knowing it's all pointless and we're all going to die soon. :roll:
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How have people ever existed? Calamity has always been visitor to humanity.

I believe in the spiritual side of life, and have faith in God. There is more than this material existence, I believe.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
How have people ever existed? Calamity has always been visitor to humanity.

I believe in the spiritual side of life, and have faith in God. There is more than this material existence, I believe.
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I'll give you a hint. It's pretty much accepted that the human race began in Africa.

I don't live in Africa. Do you? We've survived this long by moving, and being willing to move, to areas that are more advantageous to our continued survival. The next step in that process is pretty obvious.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
For what, other than to say we did again?

Fiscal 2010 NASA had a 18.7 billion dollar budget.

The National Parks Service had a 2.7 billion dollar budget. The National Parks Service has been underfunded for years now. The budget for the entire Department of Interior, is 12 billion dollars, which manages 500 million acres of parks and wild lands, is still less than NASA, and it has been chronically underfunded for years now.

U.S. Department of the Interior - About the Department - Quick Facts

Should we do a better job preserving our national treasures for future generations, or build a base on the moon? If we are prioritizing here, what is more important?
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NASA, the agency known for exploring space, will be spending a lot more time studying Earth in the next few years.

The Obama administration has proposed a budget for NASA that includes billions of dollars for satellites and other tools to help scientists investigate Earth-bound problems, especially climate change.
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NASA Slated To Receive Billions To Study Earth : NPR

So NASA will now be Barry's propaganda arm for Global Warming. :roll:
 
Kelzie said:
A lot of things are important. That doesn't mean they're vital. When we're running a deficit, be it national or personal, only vital expenses should be included in your budget. When we start running a surplus again, that's when we can start bringing the "important" stuff back on line.

At least, that's how fiscal responsibility seems to me.
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I guess it depends on the definition of vital. I don't think the words "fiscal responsibility" have any meaning in our nation's capital.
 
WillRockwell said:
Ah, to be able to simplify issues to the point that thought is uneccesary....

I believe I'll wait for Obama's Canaveral speech to weigh in on this, except to say that Bush's half-assed plan for NASA derailed real progress, which now has to be made up somehow. A seamless progression of manned orbital vehicles should have been anticipated and budgeted in the early 2000's, instead we have the shuttle retiring with nothing to follow it.
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How can one person be so wrong on so many subjects? Oh, that's right..... it's always Bush's fault.

The budget numbers will show that the administration effectively plans to kill the Constellation program that called for a return to the moon by 2020. The budget, expected to increase slightly over the current $18.7 billion, is also a death knell for the Ares 1 rocket, NASA's planned successor to the space shuttle. The agency has spent billions developing the rocket, which is still years from its first scheduled crew flight.
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NASA budget for 2011 eliminates funds for manned lunar missions - washingtonpost.com
 
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Moon said:
I guess it depends on the definition of vital. I don't think the words "fiscal responsibility" have any meaning in our nation's capital.
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Has it ever? I'm not going to get upset over a step in the right direction, even is we've already taken ten steps back.
 
Kelzie said:
Has it ever? I'm not going to get upset over a step in the right direction, even is we've already taken ten steps back.
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We disagree on which direction this specific step is.
 
Moon said:
I'll give you a hint. It's pretty much accepted that the human race began in Africa.

I don't live in Africa. Do you? We've survived this long by moving, and being willing to move, to areas that are more advantageous to our continued survival. The next step in that process is pretty obvious.
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Well, I'll give you a hint back at ya... Space isn't more advantageous to our continued survival. It's downright inhospitable in fact... :2razz:

And, the movement of humans from Africa was only necessary for population growth, not species survival. It was, no doubt, brought about because of warfare over territory. Sorry, but transporting millions of people light years away on spaceships, to hopefully uninhabited and hospitable planets as yet unknown, just ain't practical... :doh
 
Moon said:
We disagree on which direction this specific step is.
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Do we? You think space exploration is a vital expenditure on the government's part?
 
Kelzie said:
Wait...how did we lose technology?
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They destroyed all of the research that went into the Saturn rocket, including most of the blueprints and all of the construction jigs. We couldn't build another one unless we started pretty much from scratch….. Kinda like the SR-71 Black bird.
 
MyOwnDrum said:
Well, I'll give you a hint back at ya... Space isn't more advantageous to our continued survival. It's downright inhospitable in fact... :2razz:

And, the movement of humans from Africa was only necessary for population growth, not species survival. It was, no doubt, brought about because of warfare over territory. Sorry, but transporting millions of people light years away on spaceships, to hopefully uninhabited and hospitable planets as yet unknown, just ain't practical... :doh
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So shortsighted. The Atlantic Ocean was "downright inhospitable" until the technology was developed to overcome it. Now it's routine. :doh

When a species grows to the point that it can no longer feed itself, moving to a better area IS a matter of species survival.
 
Crunch said:
They destroyed all of the research that went into the Saturn rocket, including most of the blueprints and all of the construction jigs. We couldn't build another one unless we started pretty much from scratch….. Kinda like the SR-71 Black bird.
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Why on earth would they do that?
 
Crunch said:
Saturn rocket?..... it was competing with the Shuttle.

SR-71?...... because we are stupid. That was the fastest aircraft ever built. Coast to coast in 1 hour.
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I obviously know very little about what goes on at NASA, but let me get this straight. They destroyed the technology that allowed us to land on the moon because it was competing with a different shuttle?
 
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