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Thread: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

  1. #281
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    Christ man. Do you have to reply to every sentence?
    You don't have to either.

    I don't need a prosthetic limb, so...Seriously, you can't assume we would have to do without any of them. For all we know, some corporation would have developed these technologies if the government didn't.
    Did you even bother to read through the spin-off article I provided? If you're not going to make a serious effort to learn from others, then what's the point of this discussion? It's a very interesting read, and very informative, at least set aside some time to give it a serious perusal.

    Moreover, you're neglecting the time aspect of these innovations. Wouldn't you rather have ventricular pumps sooner rather than later? I know people waiting for heart transplants do, but I guess they don't matter?

    Indeed. God bless compound interest. Joking aside, if it was vitally needed, it would be produced from the market.
    What do you mean by "vitally needed"? No one really "needs" indoor plumbing, or computer technology, or any number of things we use on a daily basis. They may not be "vitally needed" but they are certainly "vitally important".

    Also, are you making this argument as a devil's advocate, or as a serious proponent of the free market? Because if it's the former, you can stop right now, since I'm not one of these "free-market = God" conservatives you seem intent on smiting.

    So not going there and you know what I meant.
    I know what you meant, but using CO2 emissions as an example was not the way to go about making your point. You could have talked about carbon monoxide or nitrogen dioxide instead.

    Damn you sensible conservatives.
    Now we're getting somewhere.

    Oh, an MBA. Explains your high and mighty attitude.
    High and mighty? I prefer "imperious".

    I'm not sure if it's really another argument. If the choice was run a deficit or pay for a space program, what would you choose?
    Why can't I just cut spending elsewhere? Is that not an option?

    Here's 167 million we can use right off the bat...

    National Endowment for the Arts Appropriations History

    When did you offer your humble opinion? I don't remember that happening. And at first I thought your deference was a sign of respect, but I'm starting to sense some sarcasm. Could just be me.
    You asserted the "luxury" of space exploration, and I said it was up for debate, but you exercised your imperial powers.

    If I seem to recall...

    Indeed. Microbrew or are you one of "those" conservatives?
    I can appreciate all beers. I'm multifaceted.

    Yeah. I'll make sure I cut you in when I do so.
    You could handle the "financial aspects", and let me run the company. I'd offer you a 20% return... : )

    Mmm...nah. I mean really, other than some chest-puffery, the only organizations we really have to worry about are terrorists. I don't see them getting to space any time soon. Like him or hate him, Obama is mending ties with Russia and China, the only possible threats we have on that frontier.

    Totally knew you were a Treky, by the way.
    That's a very narrow view on something that is extremely complex and far-reaching; in the long term, manned space exploration is "vital" to our society's prosperity and security. We can't sacrifice every long term goal just because we have short term problems right now. Americans act like society is just the hardest thing ever; they're always complaining about something that's literally trivial to billions of other people.

    Ughh, my Civic got a flat! Call the Feds!

    I'm more of a Star Wars guy, anyway.

    A socialist program does not a socialist government make. Public health care is hella socialist. I would still consider the US capitalist, even after we passed it.
    Capitalism is just private property rights and wage labor. Socialism is the radical overthrow of the bourgeois and government by the proletariat. I don't advocate for the radical overthrow of anyone, so I'm not going to admit I support "socialist" programs. Young people!

  2. #282
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    Nope. Shocked?

    I don't blame you for thinking I'm one of "those" liberals though. Climate research is a luxury too. And a concern over the deficit should not be laughable. If I spent more than I made each month, I would consider a book, even an educational one on say, space, to be a frivolous expenditure.
    What's more important to you? Space travel or climate research?

    I hope your answer isn't "climate research".

  3. #283
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Its amusing to note that Obama and Armstrong are about as opposite a pair you could imagine in America

    one is a hero, got to where he was purely on his own merit, and truly was the best of the best

    the other is a fraud, second rate and hates America
    Now there's some wise words! This President has taken more wrong turns than a dyslexic cab driver.

  4. #284
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    Kelzie's Avatar
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    You don't have to either.

    Did you even bother to read through the spin-off article I provided? If you're not going to make a serious effort to learn from others, then what's the point of this discussion? It's a very interesting read, and very informative, at least set aside some time to give it a serious perusal.
    ...umm. No, not really. I figured the parts you pulled out were enough to go by. However I totally trust you that there were lots and lots of scientific discoveries by NASA that are completely outshadowed by the millions of scientific discoveries from private sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    Moreover, you're neglecting the time aspect of these innovations. Wouldn't you rather have ventricular pumps sooner rather than later? I know people waiting for heart transplants do, but I guess they don't matter?
    Of course they matter. And according to the free market, if they're willing to pay enough, corporations will pay for R&D for the products they want.

    What do you mean by "vitally needed"? No one really "needs" indoor plumbing, or computer technology, or any number of things we use on a daily basis. They may not be "vitally needed" but they are certainly "vitally important".
    I'm like...95% sure we had indoor plumbing before we went to the moon. And I pay for my vitally important thing. Like my Kindle. Shelled out close to $300 for it. Vitally important. If the space program came up with something as vitally important as that, I'm sure it would find a market.

    Also, are you making this argument as a devil's advocate, or as a serious proponent of the free market? Because if it's the former, you can stop right now, since I'm not one of these "free-market = God" conservatives you seem intent on smiting.
    I already told you I'm a pinko-commie liberal and a hippy to boot. What do you think?


    Why can't I just cut spending elsewhere? Is that not an option?

    Here's 167 million we can use right off the bat...

    National Endowment for the Arts Appropriations History
    Because that wasn't the option. Though I'm tempted to allow you to cut that just out of spite. That crap is why there's so much...crap in museums today.


    You asserted the "luxury" of space exploration, and I said it was up for debate, but you exercised your imperial powers.

    If I seem to recall...
    Your rational seems to be that it has provided a large number of scientific advances and promises many more, true?

    I can appreciate all beers. I'm multifaceted.
    I appreciate all beer too. I sneer at beer-flavored water though. It's my imperialist nature.

    That's a very narrow view on something that is extremely complex and far-reaching; in the long term, manned space exploration is "vital" to our society's prosperity and security. We can't sacrifice every long term goal just because we have short term problems right now. Americans act like society is just the hardest thing ever; they're always complaining about something that's literally trivial to billions of other people.

    Ughh, my Civic got a flat! Call the Feds!
    Not every long term goal. I say we start at the bare bones and work our way up. Since you're growing on me, I'll throw a couple hundred million towards space exploration.

    I'm more of a Star Wars guy, anyway.
    Nerd.

    Capitalism is just private property rights and wage labor. Socialism is the radical overthrow of the bourgeois and government by the proletariat. I don't advocate for the radical overthrow of anyone, so I'm not going to admit I support "socialist" programs. Young people!
    Indeed, that is what socialism is. A socialist program though is when the government steps in for the free market. Like public health care.

    People of indeterminate age.
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

    Serbian proverb

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    ...umm. No, not really. I figured the parts you pulled out were enough to go by. However I totally trust you that there were lots and lots of scientific discoveries by NASA that are completely outshadowed by the millions of scientific discoveries from private sources.
    I don't see how you could disentangle the information age from NASA's achievements in space exploration.

    I seem to remember something about water on the moon? Don't worry! NASA already created the water purifying technology (which benefits many people in third world countries), so there's no need to fund the research! Isn't that awesome! It's just too bad that no private corporation has the means to get that water, and won't for at least a decade.

    Of course they matter. And according to the free market, if they're willing to pay enough, corporations will pay for R&D for the products they want.

    I'm like...95% sure we had indoor plumbing before we went to the moon. And I pay for my vitally important thing. Like my Kindle. Shelled out close to $300 for it. Vitally important. If the space program came up with something as vitally important as that, I'm sure it would find a market.
    Are you under the impression that I don't support the free market?

    I already told you I'm a pinko-commie liberal and a hippy to boot. What do you think?
    JFK would have had you arrested or at least blacklisted for saying that. Too bad he's gone...

    Because that wasn't the option. Though I'm tempted to allow you to cut that just out of spite. That crap is why there's so much...crap in museums today.
    I don't understand the question then. I have to choose between the space program and a balanced budget? How large of a deficit are we talking here? How much debt do we have?

    Your rational seems to be that it has provided a large number of scientific advances and promises many more, true?
    That, and it's vital to our long term strategy on American preeminence.

    I appreciate all beer too. I sneer at beer-flavored water though. It's my imperialist nature.
    A real imperialist wouldn't be afraid to go to space.

    Not every long term goal. I say we start at the bare bones and work our way up. Since you're growing on me, I'll throw a couple hundred million towards space exploration.
    Why doesn't it matter to you that NASA costs so little in proportion to our Federal budget and deficit? Half a percent and one percent, respectively. Don't you think, that as far as government agencies go, NASA has been a pretty good return on its investment!? Can't we just cut foreign aid or something!?

    Nerd.

    Indeed, that is what socialism is. A socialist program though is when the government steps in for the free market. Like public health care.

    People of indeterminate age.
    I'm not sure what you mean by "socialist program". We have a Constitution and a Representative government; programs created by appropriations of Congress aren't "socialist" just because they involve taxes and transfers of wealth.

    Obama underpins his policy with populist-marxist rhetoric, but that doesn't mean programs created by Congress are "socialist". They can be unconstitutional, and they often are, but I don't see it as being "socialist". It's the product of Keynesian economics.

  6. #286
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    So which of us here are willing to be taxed an extra 5% of our income for a "space tax"?
    or for any of their pet programs?
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

  7. #287
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    So which of us here are willing to be taxed an extra 5% of our income for a "space tax"?
    or for any of their pet programs?
    Five percent? NASA FY 2009 consumed less than half a percent of receipts.

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    I don't see what conservatives would be mad at, - isn't Obama just taking the government money from NASA and telling the private-sector to do more of the development for space exploration?

    How is it conservatives are so pro-government spending now? Didn't we already go to the moon and find out there was basically nothing there?

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    That's right, I didn't want the Obamacare plan so I assumed we could use that money for this. I hope none of you are using any technology that came from the moon program.
    Going to the moon again won't save any lives. However, health care reform will save lives.

  10. #290
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    What is accomplished by going to the moon? We should take that money and invest in solar power research, and other fuel alternatives.
    Thick.

    Three NASA legends that have stayed out of the political spotlight, put one on our intellectually anorexic president, and look at the response from those still sipping O's Kool-Aid? Ignorance. Hand in glove.

    There has been a mass of life improving technologies over the decades.

    Perhaps we should scrap all the satellites out there for starters. Then the imbeciles that cannot figure out the great advances the space program has brought can get a taste first hand.

    Once these libs go back to watching 3 channels, **** in one hand, Kool-Aid in the other... they might understand part of the picture. I have my doubts though.

    ...
    Solar power and other fuel alternatives. LOL... we sit on an abundance of oil, there is nuke power... but no, no, no... can't touch that. Instead we should kill our space exploration program so a bunch of Greenies & Marxist America haters can put money into solar power... ROTFLMAO. Now that is deep.

    Can't wait until November... when all this nonsense will have a new set of brakes.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 04-16-10 at 05:04 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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