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Thread: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

  1. #271
    The Almighty
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Christ man. Do you have to reply to every sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    Pass. I think I'll just drink to JFK's newly dead legacy instead.

    That's swell. So, which innovations are you willing to go without? Just checking...
    I don't need a prosthetic limb, so...Seriously, you can't assume we would have to do without any of them. For all we know, some corporation would have developed these technologies if the government didn't.

    Time is a precious resource.
    Indeed. God bless compound interest. Joking aside, if it was vitally needed, it would be produced from the market.


    CO2 is not pollution.
    So not going there and you know what I meant.

    Look, I was prompted to choose a "lean" so I picked "slightly conservative". Don't read too much into it...

    Either way, I'm pretty sure that most sensible Republicans and conservatives understand the limitations of the free market. There are certain things it is ill equipped to handle; the military, police protection, courts, manned space exploration, etc.
    Damn you sensible conservatives.

    No need to explain. I minored in economics and finance and have my MBA.
    Oh, an MBA. Explains your high and mighty attitude.

    Market failure is an inefficient allocation of goods and services. I consider space exploration essential to the long term prosperity and security of the United States, as do many others, which would suggest there is "demand" for it, and since the market cannot efficiently allocate goods and services to that end, I, along with others, would consider it a market failure. You can disagree with whether or not it's truly "essential", but that is another argument entirely.
    I'm not sure if it's really another argument. If the choice was run a deficit or pay for a space program, what would you choose?

    You're the one who asserted your opinion as fact (space exploration is a "luxury", isn't essential). I, on the other hand, merely offered my humble opinion. If you want to discuss the necessity of the space program with me, then do so without the arrogant presumption that your opinion is the only valid one...majesty.
    When did you offer your humble opinion? I don't remember that happening. And at first I thought your deference was a sign of respect, but I'm starting to sense some sarcasm. Could just be me.

    It's kind of hard to be chafed when you're drinking a beer on your porch.
    Indeed. Microbrew or are you one of "those" conservatives?

    Maybe you can use some of that financial expertise to turn manned space exploration into a profitable venture.
    Yeah. I'll make sure I cut you in when I do so.

    I think you missed the point. Space is literally the "final frontier". Eventually, it will be heavily weaponized and subject to intense militarization. I'm of the opinion that the United States should be on the forefront of such efforts, as opposed to some other, less ethical country.
    Mmm...nah. I mean really, other than some chest-puffery, the only organizations we really have to worry about are terrorists. I don't see them getting to space any time soon. Like him or hate him, Obama is mending ties with Russia and China, the only possible threats we have on that frontier.

    Totally knew you were a Treky, by the way.

    Because I'm of the opinion that manned space exploration is essential to the long term prosperity and security of the United States of America.

    I'm sorry, I must have missed the revolutionary overthrow of our government by the proletariat. Perhaps I was asleep...
    A socialist program does not a socialist government make. Public health care is hella socialist. I would still consider the US capitalist, even after we passed it.
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

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  2. #272
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    I don't see how committing to build the hardware to take us to the outer planets is "tempering the dream". Bush's programs would not get us to Mars and would not set the stage for the habitat and propulsion systems necessary to take the next big step. Getting to the moon was easy, what Obama is doing is the first step to the stars.
    First step to the stars!? Can I have some of your Koolaid?

  3. #273
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    I don't see how committing to build the hardware to take us to the outer planets is "tempering the dream". Bush's programs would not get us to Mars and would not set the stage for the habitat and propulsion systems necessary to take the next big step. Getting to the moon was easy, what Obama is doing is the first step to the stars.
    Perhaps the largest problem is that the speech contained no unifying goal. Its timelines were so distant that they will not inspire the kind of urgency that transformed President Kennedy's vision into reality.

    Moreover, at the time President Kennedy made his commitment, numerous technologies and capablities necessary for a successful landing on the moon and return to earth had yet to be developed. I would like to think that today, nearly 50 years later, America's technological prowess and innovative capabilities are beyond those when the U.S. committed to landing on the moon in a decade (and achieved it in less time). Articulating a belief, which is vastly different from making a commitment, that man will orbit Mars in the 2030s and land there afterward is not exactly a ringing endorsement of America's ability to master complex problems and develop new technologies over a demanding timeframe.

    One should bear in mind that the successful Manhattan and Apollo projects were extremely bold, had demanding timelines, and pushed the frontiers of technology and knowledge. In contrast, the incrementalist approach following the 1970s oil crises has led the U.S. to stand in place when it comes to energy. Today's speech does not follow in the bold footsteps of the Manhattan and Apollo Projects. It does not represent a meaningful departure from the drift that has gripped the nation's space program under multiple Administrations.

  4. #274
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Yeah, but watch out for who is deciding the right blend. Enter corporate donors, special interests, and corrupt politicians.
    Well duh. I used to be a starry-eyed poly sci major. Until I realized nothing is ever, ever going to change.

    Social Security: the least of our entitlement worries. It is frustrating that those who can afford retirement on their own are collecting SS. I would cut them out first of all. The rest have had promises and they count on it. My parents count on it so they can take a long trip every year to somewhere interesting. Before FDR we didn't have it. How did we care for our elders then? They lived with us. We need to go back to that model and have families care for the elderly.
    I actually really believe that too. Partially cause my mom is so cool my sister and I are already fighting over who she get's to live with. But I also think America has grown dangerously out of touch with family and community.

    Medicare/Medicaid: This is a tough one and evidently the more costly and growing of the entitlements. Since we are talking socialism, lemme briefly tell you my solution. At the state/local level (where-ever the optimal savings for administration and staffing occurs) we create Co-ops, so they are not government run. We fund the co-ops with state and local taxes. Taxes will go up. The co-ops provide medical care for the old, the sick (pre-existing conditions) and the poor. Medicare and Medicaid are closed down. The co-ops will hire their own staff (admin, nurses, doctors) and buy their own facilities (clinics, urgent care, pharmacies, hospitals). Costs are contained based on the employment and facility ownership. They can serve X number of people in T amount of time. The latest drugs are not always used to save money. No choice of doctors in this system. You may be able to buy supplementals for the latest drugs and doctor choice.
    Well...okay. Have you written the President yet? I'm also a big fan of taxes going up.

    I am screwed on retirement.
    I'm glad I started young, it helps. A bad economy also helps.

    Yeah, like Crippler said, why are you hating on the sciences?
    Mostly to be a pain in the ass. Plus it amuses me to see conservatives admit they support socialist policies, since I converted from libertarianism myself. Kinda a hobby I guess...
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

    Serbian proverb

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    NASA's entire budget in FY 2009 only accounted for approximately 1% of the deficit, and half a percent of the entire Federal budget. Your concern over the deficit is, forgive me, laughable.

    Never mind that Obama didn't even decrease NASA's budget; he just shifted the funding from space exploration to climate research. I'm sure you consider that "essential".
    Nope. Shocked?

    I don't blame you for thinking I'm one of "those" liberals though. Climate research is a luxury too. And a concern over the deficit should not be laughable. If I spent more than I made each month, I would consider a book, even an educational one on say, space, to be a frivolous expenditure.
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

    Serbian proverb

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    Well...okay. Have you written the President yet? I'm also a big fan of taxes going up.
    Of course, I forgot to mention: federal taxes will go down with no Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid to worry about.

  7. #277
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Its amusing to note that Obama and Armstrong are about as opposite a pair you could imagine in America

    one is a hero, got to where he was purely on his own merit, and truly was the best of the best

    the other is a fraud, second rate and hates America



  8. #278
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Its amusing to note that Obama and Armstrong are about as opposite a pair you could imagine in America

    one is a hero, got to where he was purely on his own merit, and truly was the best of the best

    the other is a fraud, second rate and hates America
    What do you have against Armstong?
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

    Serbian proverb

  9. #279
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    What do you have against Armstong?
    nothing, he's from Ohio local boy sort of

    met him a bunch of times-he and my late father were friends they were

    members of the same country club!

    and Buzz Alrdin's sister was one house up from ours across the road

    met him a few times too



  10. #280
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Link


    Looks like the big gun has taken aim at Obama. Obama is a moron.
    So you like big government spending? Then let me call you out as a fake Conservative. Money is tight right now, and the key to the space program is working smarter, and not having the only goal being to put men on the moon again. Been there, done that, and decades ahead of everybody else. At this time, we have the ability to continue our robotic exploration programs, and learn much more than spending untold billions for image building. Face it - We once had a surplus, thanks to Newt Gingrich, and now we have a huge debt. Every program is going to have to be cut back, but that doesn't mean that NASA is going to be second fiddle to any other nation's program. It will be leaner and meaner, because that is how it must be, with the crushing debt America is now facing.

    So, in the end, NASA workers are about to be laid off. OK, that is business. If you are deep in the red, you lay off and cut back. Let the NASA workers find work in the private sector, and stop sucking off the government tit. Isn't that what you would tell any other government worker? If it isn't, then you are not Conservative in the least, but just another big government addict who plays at being one.

    Whatever happened to the GOP saying that we should shrink the government down to a size that would fit in a bathtub, and then drown it? How is that working out for you? It goes to show that we are not defined by what we say, but by what we do. If it quacks like a duck, it's a duck, Mr. Liberal in Conservative clothing.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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