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Thread: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    Conservatives aren't allowed to support any government spending without being hypocrites.
    I am not a conservative. I am a Whig.

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I am not a conservative. I am a Whig.
    Okay then. I guess you're in the clear...

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    For the love. How did we end up with so many seperate posts to each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    Just setting the record straight, your majesty.
    Well. As long as you continue being respectful, you can come to the after party.

    Okay then. I suspect you won't have any problems eliminating the technological innovations of NASA from your life and everyone else's, since they don't produce anything of worth.

    First, you can throw out pretty much anything that uses microprocessors or wireless technology.

    Next, you can walk to your local hospital and start ripping off prosthetic limbs. Once you're done with that, visit the folks awaiting a heart transplant and remove their ventricle pumps.

    You know what, just read this and tell me which innovations you're willing to go without...

    http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/Spinoff2...pinoff2009.pdf
    You're confusing me with the market. I personally am a pinko-commie, liberal, hippy Democrat. I am all for taxing the crap out of you to pay for programs you don't want. Though I used to be a Libertarian, so it's pretty easy to bat for the other team.

    If these innovations were important enough, the private sector would have come up with them eventually.

    Why would I support cap and trade for carbon emissions?
    It is widely accepted that pollution is a market failure. Or do you only care about certain market failures?

    I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Just FYI, before you look foolish.
    You're partially right. Republicans/conservatives are supposed to believe in the free market. Unfortunately, the current representation of conservatives seems to only believe in the free market when it suits big business or their own wallets. A shame really.

    The market failure isn't from a lack of knowledge, it's from a lack of funding and profit motive.
    That is not a market failure. That is how the market is supposed to work. You obviously know about economic theory, so I'm not going to explain the laws of supply and demand to you. Suffice it to say, if the market refuses to produce something, it is not a failure. That item is just not in demand. I've seen no evidence yet to support your belief that the space program is so necessary we need to force the public to pay for it.

    Well, you know squat about economics and finance, but you're an expert at childish insults. Good for you...
    Okay, I can see how you're still chafing from the liberal comment. Seeing as how I'm a liberal, you can't possibly think that I meant it as an insult. Like if you told me I'm truely a conservative at heart, I wouldn't be all "ew, blech." I'd take it in the spirit it was given. You should try it. It's much more fulfilling to the ego to decide to be complimented. For example, you just called me childish. I'll take that to mean I am caref ree and easy to get along with.

    Oh and accounting major with a minor in finance. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it's incorrect information.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    Well, maybe you can inform the CIA and the NSA that NASA will no longer be putting their spy satellites into orbit. You can also inform the Air Force that any future collaboration with NASA will no longer be necessary. And don't forget to tell China and Russia that space is never to be weaponized. I'm sure we can trust them...
    I'm sure we can too, that's why I'm invested in both. There's that finance background. Economic ties are much harder to sever than military, but that's a different thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    Not only am I saying they won't, I am saying they would even kill and maim one another for simply being a different color or religion. Humans have this funny habit of acting violently and selfishly and irrationally.
    That humans act selfishly is the basis for the free market theory of economics. You still haven't really responded to my question. Why do you think we should ignore the free market's decision that a space program does not have enough demand to turn a profit, and instead rely on the government forcing tax dollars to pay for it.

    I would also like you to admit you support a socialist program.
    Last edited by Kelzie; 04-15-10 at 06:50 PM.
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I think many people would pay for a space program. It does deliver essential benefits, but those are long-term and not easily definable for the market to invest.

    The government does do essential funding of non-marketable activities. I would include the military, as big as it is, in this category. Ditto the State Department. Ditto basic science research. These are things we should continue to fund at the government level. That means collecting taxes to pay for it. In no way does this resemble socialism.
    It is most certainly socialism, it's just people have such a nasty association with the word, they don't want to believe they can support it. Socialism is essentially a state managed economy. A socialist program is one in which the state steps in to manage some part of the economy, ie public health care, public schools, etc. Like it or not, a military can be provided in a free market. The state providing it instead is a socialist program. I personally don't have a problem with that and in fact would agree with you that it is essential, but as mentioned to 1984, I'm a pinko-commie Democrat.
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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
    Conservatives aren't allowed to support any government spending without being hypocrites.
    Where did you get that silly notion?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    It is most certainly socialism, it's just people have such a nasty association with the word, they don't want to believe they can support it. Socialism is essentially a state managed economy. A socialist program is one in which the state steps in to manage some part of the economy, ie public health care, public schools, etc. Like it or not, a military can be provided in a free market. The state providing it instead is a socialist program. I personally don't have a problem with that and in fact would agree with you that it is essential, but as mentioned to 1984, I'm a pinko-commie Democrat.
    The difference is between a state-owned business, which is not socialism, and a state-owned economy, which is. Either way, I am a Whig and so I don't have a problem with some moderate state spending and programs.

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The difference is between a state-owned business, which is not socialism, and a state-owned economy, which is. Either way, I am a Whig and so I don't have a problem with some moderate state spending and programs.
    A program can be socialist without the entire state being socialist. Public health care will not make the US a socialist country, but that doesn't make it any less of a socialist program.
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    A program can be socialist without the entire state being socialist. Public health care will not make the US a socialist country, but that doesn't make it any less of a socialist program.
    Ok, your right. So they are socialist. I do think that there are essential, necessary programs that are not profitable and government should collect taxes to pay for them. I think of them in terms of community needs, for the good of the community. I include many programs, though not all that we have, including military, foreign aid and diplomacy, healthcare for the old, sick and poor, space and science and art and regulatory agencies for much. Entitlements is a bit much - we used to rely on family and charity to provide. We need a better mix there.

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Ok, your right. So they are socialist. I do think that there are essential, necessary programs that are not profitable and government should collect taxes to pay for them. I think of them in terms of community needs, for the good of the community. I include many programs, though not all that we have, including military, foreign aid and diplomacy, healthcare for the old, sick and poor, space and science and art and regulatory agencies for much. Entitlements is a bit much - we used to rely on family and charity to provide. We need a better mix there.
    Which is why I'm not a libertarian anymore. Like so many things in life, the economy works best with a blend of socialist and capitalist features.

    The problem with yanking entitlements is we've encouraged a large amount of elderly Americans to think of them as, if not entirely, at least a large chunk of their retirement. It's a little cruel to pull the rug out from under their feet at this point. I am not entirely opposed to telling the younger generations they're on their own, but then what do we do when people don't save for old age? Let them starve on the street?

    I don't know. I'm saving for an early retirement. On one hand I don't see how it's my problem is someone else doesn't. But on the other hand there are a lot of practical problems.

    But I am totally down with funding the sciences. Once we're out of this deficit.
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

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    Re: Neil Armstrong, other astronauts call Obama's NASA plans 'devastating'

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post

    But I am totally down with funding the sciences. Once we're out of this deficit.
    Why do you hate science?
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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