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Thread: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

  1. #31
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Anyone can form a group and call it a "militia".


    In the event of a crisis (ie Katrina), this "militia" can act to aid the community and protect against lawlessness, within what the law allows any individual to do in that regard. For instance, in many states you can come to the defense of a person being attacked by criminals... it doesn't specifically state that you can't do so as part of an organized group, in most jurisdictions. Example: the Guardian Angels.

    However, in order to legally act in an actual militia capacity (ie as a military force), would require state sanction and putting control of the militia under the Governor...which apparently they are seeking to do.

    Don't see what would make it either a problem, or a big deal. It is in accord with the Constitution and with historical useage of "militia".
    Last edited by Goshin; 04-13-10 at 09:27 PM.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    From what I have heard and read thus far this is the closest "act" or intent that comes closest at least conceptually to sedition that I have heard in modern times. Underline U]closest[/U]

    [html]Sedition is a term of law which refers to overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority[/html]
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Well, I -did- read somewhere that a well-regulated militia is necessary for the security of a free state.
    Well yes a well regulated militia is guaranteed by the Constitution and in modern times we call that the National Guard. Doesn't the Oklahomo have a National Guard already !!!
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Question

    How is a well REGULATED militia going to help defend against improper federal infringements on state sovereignty?
    They attack Fort Sumpter !!!
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    I doubt that most militia's will put themselves under the direct control of the state government though.

    Especially as most states are quite compliant with the infringing of states rights by the federal government ( money makes the states say more please)
    Well if they are not under "control of the state government " then they are not well regulated and therefore they are not officially militia as per the Constitution.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    What do you think "well regulated" means?
    It means well trained as far as I know.
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    It means well trained as far as I know.

    Here are some facts to read !!!
    [HTML][Well Regulated

    The Random House College Dictionary (1980) gives four definitions for the word "regulate," which were all in use during the Colonial period and one more definition dating from 1690 (Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition, 1989). They are:

    1) To control or direct by a rule, principle, method, etc.
    2) To adjust to some standard or requirement as for amount, degree, etc.

    3) To adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation.

    4) To put in good order.

    [obsolete sense]
    b. Of troops: Properly disciplined. Obs. rare-1.

    1690 Lond. Gaz. No. 2568/3 We hear likewise that the French are in a great Allarm in Dauphine and Bresse, not having at present 1500 Men of regulated Troops on that side.
    We can begin to deduce what well-regulated meant from Alexander Hamilton's words in Federalist Paper No. 29:

    The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss.
    --- The Federalist Papers, No. 29.
    Hamilton indicates a well-regulated militia is a state of preparedness obtained after rigorous and persistent training. Note the use of 'disciplining' which indicates discipline could be synonymous with well-trained.

    This quote from the Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789 also conveys the meaning of well regulated:

    Resolved , That this appointment be conferred on experienced and vigilant general officers, who are acquainted with whatever relates to the general economy, manoeuvres and discipline of a well regulated army.
    --- Saturday, December 13, 1777.
    In the passage that follows, do you think the U.S. government was concerned because the Creek Indians' tribal regulations were superior to those of the Wabash or was it because they represented a better trained and disciplined fighting force?
    That the strength of the Wabash Indians who were principally the object of the resolve of the 21st of July 1787, and the strength of the Creek Indians is very different. That the said Creeks are not only greatly superior in numbers but are more united, better regulated, and headed by a man whose talents appear to have fixed him in their confidence. That from the view of the object your Secretary has been able to take he conceives that the only effectual mode of acting against the said Creeks in case they should persist in their hostilities would be by making an invasion of their country with a powerful body of well regulated troops always ready to combat and able to defeat any combination of force the said Creeks could oppose and to destroy their towns and provisions.
    --- Saturday, December 13, 1777.
    /HTML]
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  8. #38
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Anyone can form a group and call it a "militia".


    In the event of a crisis (ie Katrina), this "militia" can act to aid the community and protect against lawlessness, within what the law allows any individual to do in that regard. For instance, in many states you can come to the defense of a person being attacked by criminals... it doesn't specifically state that you can't do so as part of an organized group, in most jurisdictions. Example: the Guardian Angels.

    However, in order to legally act in an actual militia capacity (ie as a military force), would require state sanction and putting control of the militia under the Governor...which apparently they are seeking to do.

    Don't see what would make it either a problem, or a big deal. It is in accord with the Constitution and with historical useage of "militia".
    True just because someone calls something a militia that does not automatically make it so. Just like groups or people who call themselves "patriotic" that does not necessailly make it so.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

  9. #39
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Exactly, and as long as the comply with all State and Federal gun regs, I have no problem with this.


    and just what you think "well regulated" means?
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    and just what you think "well regulated" means?
    Was my answer incorrect?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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