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Thread: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

  1. #351
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So 2005 there were about 59,231 home robberies. Almost half of all robberies are done with firearms. So tell me, how is 59,231 rarer than the ~200 accidental deaths a year?

    2008 numbers are 72,022 home robberies. These are defined as violent crimes.
    Violent Crime - Crime in the United States 2008
    Robberies are not the same as home invasions.

    As for accidental deaths, I assume you mean children:

    # In 1999, 3,385 children and youth ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. This includes homicides, suicides, and unintentional injuries.
    # This is equivalent to about 9 deaths per day, a figure commonly used by journalists.
    # The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to:Four teen boys

    * 214 unintentional
    * 1,078 suicides
    * 1,990 homicides
    * 83 for which the intent could not be determined
    * 20 due to legal intervention

    Gun Safety for Kids and Youth: Your Child: University of Michigan Health System

    This study shows that in 1 urban population, the incidence of unintended gun death among children is 6 times higher than current data sources suggest. These findings indicate that unintentional gun death is not to be discounted in prevention planning and that manner of death data should be used with caution in making any inference regarding the intentionality of a firearm death.

    Are "Accidental" Gun Deaths as Rare as They Seem? A Comparison of Medical Examiner Manner of Death Coding With an Intent-Based Classification Approach -- Schaechter et al. 111 (4): 741 -- Pediatrics

    Overall accidental is larger:

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.[4

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States]Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    Accidental Discharge of Firearms 776

    Death Statistics Tables

    From a pro gun site:

    (B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.

    US Gun Statistics

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #352
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    A home invasion is a FORM or TYPE OF ROBBERY

    for example-you can ROB a Cab driver. You can hold up a convenience store or mug a jogger. All of those are robberies as well



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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Yeah right.

    Oklahoma militia: "We are farmers. We are militia. We want lower laxes"

    National Guard: "We are trained soldiers. We have tanks"

    Oklahoma militia: "Oh, sorry. Nevermind the tax thing."

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by TPD Founder View Post
    Yeah right.

    Oklahoma militia: "We are farmers. We are militia. We want lower laxes"

    National Guard: "We are trained soldiers. We have tanks"

    Oklahoma militia: "Oh, sorry. Nevermind the tax thing."
    Lots of farmers served in the regular army



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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    A home invasion is a FORM or TYPE OF ROBBERY

    for example-you can ROB a Cab driver. You can hold up a convenience store or mug a jogger. All of those are robberies as well
    Yes, but more specified. There is a real difference. There's a reason why they put the in different categories.

    Home invasion differs from simple burglary in its violent intent, much the same way as the violent crime of robbery is differentiated from simple larceny.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_invasion]Home invasion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Robberies are not the same as home invasions.

    As for accidental deaths, I assume you mean children:

    # In 1999, 3,385 children and youth ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. This includes homicides, suicides, and unintentional injuries.
    # This is equivalent to about 9 deaths per day, a figure commonly used by journalists.
    # The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to:Four teen boys

    * 214 unintentional
    * 1,078 suicides
    * 1,990 homicides
    * 83 for which the intent could not be determined
    * 20 due to legal intervention

    Gun Safety for Kids and Youth: Your Child: University of Michigan Health System

    This study shows that in 1 urban population, the incidence of unintended gun death among children is 6 times higher than current data sources suggest. These findings indicate that unintentional gun death is not to be discounted in prevention planning and that manner of death data should be used with caution in making any inference regarding the intentionality of a firearm death.

    Are "Accidental" Gun Deaths as Rare as They Seem? A Comparison of Medical Examiner Manner of Death Coding With an Intent-Based Classification Approach -- Schaechter et al. 111 (4): 741 -- Pediatrics

    Overall accidental is larger:

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.[4

    Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Accidental Discharge of Firearms 776

    Death Statistics Tables

    From a pro gun site:

    (B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.

    US Gun Statistics
    That number was number of robberies occurring in an individual's home. So yes, it is the same thing. Jesus ****ing christ. And yes, I was talking children since you were as well. 200 compared to ~72,000. And that's not all crime which occurs in a home through which you could defend yourself with your gun. There is a lot of other crime which happens in the home as well.
    Last edited by Ikari; 04-30-10 at 12:45 PM.
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That number was number of robberies occurring in an individual's home. So yes, it is the same thing. Jesus ****ing christ. And yes, I was talking children since you were as well. 200 compared to ~78,000. And that's not all crime which occurs in a home through which you could defend yourself with your gun. There is a lot of other crime which happens in the home as well.
    No, not the same thing. Breaking into the home to rob while people are not there is not considered a home invasion. This is why I posted something earlier to show that this distinction makes measuring it difficult. I started with trying to define what we're talking about. This is reasonable and not any thing that should upset you.

    And yes, I thought you were talking about children and not all accidents, but was just making sure.

    However, home invasion is with the intent to do violence as well as rob. A simply robbery prefers you not to be home, and doesn't carry the intended violence.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #358
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    No! I already told you, robbery is defined as a violent crime. This is the FBI's stats here. That doesn't even count burglaries. You're trying to make all these definitions to obscure the fact that you're called for something to stop 200 deaths a year, but in the end can endanger 100,000's instead.

    Definition

    The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program defines robbery as the taking or attempting to take anything of value from the care, custody, or control of a person or persons by force or threat of force or violence and/or by putting the victim in fear.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #359
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No! I already told you, robbery is defined as a violent crime. This is the FBI's stats here. That doesn't even count burglaries. You're trying to make all these definitions to obscure the fact that you're called for something to stop 200 deaths a year, but in the end can endanger 100,000's instead.

    Definition

    The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program defines robbery as the taking or attempting to take anything of value from the care, custody, or control of a person or persons by force or threat of force or violence and/or by putting the victim in fear.
    OK. I see what you're saying now. My mistake. I will look up current FBI stats later.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, not the same thing. Breaking into the home to rob while people are not there is not considered a home invasion. This is why I posted something earlier to show that this distinction makes measuring it difficult. I started with trying to define what we're talking about. This is reasonable and not any thing that should upset you.

    And yes, I thought you were talking about children and not all accidents, but was just making sure.

    However, home invasion is with the intent to do violence as well as rob. A simply robbery prefers you not to be home, and doesn't carry the intended violence.
    if the home is empty of people it is not ROBBERY. It is burglary



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