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Thread: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

  1. #291
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well there isn't much you can do in terms of laws to remedy your concern.
    Maybe not. Trigger locks seem reasonable to me.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Maybe not. Trigger locks seem reasonable to me.



    rapists, burglulars, home invaders agree.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Maybe not. Trigger locks seem reasonable to me.
    Education seems reasonable to me. If you have guns in your home, teach your children about guns and gun safety. Impress upon them the dangers associated with it. You'll go a lot further that route than you'll get with limited use of trigger locks. Again, the number of deaths due to accidental shooting is very very low in this country, so it's not a huge problem you're talking about. Fractions of a fraction of a percent.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    False premise, that the only way to infringe on a right is to flatly deny it.
    A few day delay is not even a hindrance. Again, there is no infringement but only whining over nothing.

    it is still irrelevant to the notion that the number of accidental deaths of children related to firearms is suffucient to warrant the infringement of the right.
    If it is, then it is both ways. However, I disagree. I think the numbers are sufficient enough to be a concern with children. Even your number of 120 a year is too many for something that can easily be prevented.


    Nice dodge.
    Go here. See how wrong you were.
    WONDER Message
    1999-2006 there were a TOTAL of 1377 accidental deaths with firearms of 'children' aged 19 and younger, with the understanding that ages 18 and 19 are adutls.
    Thats 2 in evey million kids. Kids are 35% more likely to be killed while walking dows the street than in a gun-related accident.
    I can't get anything immediately off your link, but I have this:

    A firearm was reported to have been involved in the deaths of 1107 children; 957 (86%) of those occurred in the United States. Of all firearm-related deaths, 55% were reported as homicides; 20%, as suicides; 22%, as unintentional; and 3%, as intention undetermined. The overall firearm-related death rate among U.S. children aged less than 15 years was nearly 12 times higher than among children in the other 25 countries combined (1.66 compared with 0.14) (Table_1). The firearm-related homicide rate in the United States was nearly 16 times higher than that in all of the other countries combined (0.94 compared with 0.06); the firearm-related suicide rate was nearly 11 times higher (0.32 compared with 0.03); and the unintentional firearm-related death rate was nine times higher (0.36 compared with 0.04). For all countries, males accounted for most of the firearm-related homicides (67%), firearm-related suicides (77%), and unintentional firearm-related deaths (89%). The nonfirearm-related homicide rate in the United States was nearly four times the rate in all of the other countries (1.63 compared with 0.45), and nonfirearm-related suicide rates were similar in the United States and in all of the other countries combined (0.23 compared with 0.24).

    The rate for firearm-related deaths among children in the United States (1.66) was 2.7-fold greater than that in the country with the next highest rate (Finland, 0.62) (Figure_1). Except for rates for firearm-related suicide in Northern Ireland and firearm-related fatalities of unknown intent in Austria, Belgium, and Israel, rates for all types of firearm-related deaths were higher in the United States than in the other countries. However, among all other countries, the impact of firearm-related deaths varied substantially. For example, five countries, including three of the four countries in Asia, reported no firearm-related deaths among children. In comparison, firearms were the primary cause of homicide in Finland, Israel, Australia, Italy, Germany, and England and Wales. Five countries (Denmark, Ireland, New Zealand, Scotland, and Taiwan) reported only unintentional firearm-related deaths.

    Reported by: Div of Violence Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, CDC.

    Rates of Homicide, Suicide, and Firearm-Related Death Among Children -- 26 Industrialized Countries

    A Health and Human Services report released on Monday, July 24, 2000, indicates the number of children and teens killed with guns in 1998 declined by 10 percent from 1997 and by 35 percent from 1994. The report shows 3,792 children and adolescents under age 20 died in 1998 from firearms compared to 4,223 in 1997 and 5,833 in 1994.

    The decrease as reported in, "Deaths: Final Data for 1998," prepared by the CDC also represents a decrease from 16 in 1994 to 10 in 1998, the number of children killed per day by gunfire.

    Child Gun Deaths Continue to Decline




    The right is protected from infringement
    Infringement covers more than just banning.
    So, no, YOU have it wrong.
    Regulation is not infringement. Again, the courts have ruled that guns can be regulated.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Education seems reasonable to me. If you have guns in your home, teach your children about guns and gun safety. Impress upon them the dangers associated with it. You'll go a lot further that route than you'll get with limited use of trigger locks. Again, the number of deaths due to accidental shooting is very very low in this country, so it's not a huge problem you're talking about. Fractions of a fraction of a percent.
    Have no problem with that either. Never would suggest it was either / or. As for a huge problem, not sure I agree with you. Low is a relative proposition. My link suggests it's higher here than elsewhere.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    rapists, burglulars, home invaders agree.




    i would try to avoid this post as well boo.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    rapists, burglulars, home invaders agree.
    I have asked for number for you on home invasions. You have not povided them. I suspect they are much lower than the numbers for kids.

    As for rapists and burgulars, not sure a weapon is that much help. I taught my brother in law once that if I wanted him shot, he would be shot. Warned him I would shoot him during the week, and shot him with a paint ball. He's heavily armed and couldn't stop me. Better armed only means better planning.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I have asked for number for you on home invasions. You have not povided them. I suspect they are much lower than the numbers for kids.


    You are free to prove your contention. I think you would fail miserably....










    As for rapists and burgulars, not sure a weapon is that much help. I taught my brother in law once that if I wanted him shot, he would be shot. Warned him I would shoot him during the week, and shot him with a paint ball. He's heavily armed and couldn't stop me. Better armed only means better planning.


    1st. don't believe you. that story is a little to taylored to your point. Regardless...


    * Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense with a firearm every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America"—a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.3
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 04-29-10 at 01:05 PM.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  9. #299
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    You are free to prove your contention. I think you would fail miserably....
    Actually, the burden of proof is on you concerning this one. You're the one claiming it a problem.




    1st. don't believe you. that story is a little to taylored to your point. Regardless...


    * Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense with a firearm every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America"a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.3
    Don't care what you believe. He's a responsible gun owner, but makes silly claims that people don't mess with him because he has guns. He's nearly 7 foot tall and 300 pound. There's a another reason people don't mess with him. But I proved my point

    BTW, I don't see a link for what you add here. Let me link something for you:

    Self-protection

    Between 1987 and 1990, David McDowall found that guns were used in defense during a crime incident 64,615 times annually.[60] This equates to two times out of 1,000 incidents (0.2%) that occurred in this time frame.[60] For violent crimes (assault, robbery, and rape), guns were used 0.83% of the time in self-defense.[60] Of the times that guns were used in self-defense, 71% of the crimes were committed by strangers, with the rest of the incidents evenly divided between offenders that were acquaintances or persons well-known to the victim.[60] Of all incidents where a gun was used for self-defense, victims shot at the offender 28% of the time.[60] In 20% of the self-defense incidents, the guns were used by police officers.[60] During this same time period, 1987 and 1990, there were 46,319 gun homicides,[61] and the National Crime Victimization Survey estimates that 2,628,532 nonfatal crimes involving guns occurred.[60]

    The findings of the McDowall's study for the American Journal of Public Health contrast with the findings of a 1993 study by Gary Kleck, who finds that as many as 2.45 million crimes are thwarted each year in the United States, and in most cases, the potential victim never fires a shot in these cases where firearms are used constructively for self-protection.[62] The results of the Kleck studies have been cited many times in scholarly and popular media.[63][64][65][66][67][68][69]

    McDowall cites methodological issues with the Kleck studies, claiming that Kleck used a very small sample size and did not confine self-defense to attempted victimizations where physical attacks had already commenced.[60] The former criticism, however, is inaccurate Kleck's survey with Marc Gertz in fact used the largest sample size of any survey that ever asked respondents about defensive gun use 4,977 cases, far more than is typical in national surveys.[70] A study of gun use in the 1990s, by David Hemenway at the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, found that criminal use of guns is far more common than self-defense use of guns.[71]

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States]Gun violence in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    It's just an overview, but it has links and we could get the FBI stats if we want.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #300
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As for a huge problem, not sure I agree with you. Low is a relative proposition. My link suggests it's higher here than elsewhere.
    Cross country evaluations are often difficult due to the differences in society, population, and laws. For us, it's a relatively low number since there are so many people and guns in our society and so few accidental deaths. Since it's below that of gravity, I don't see it as a huge problem.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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