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Thread: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

  1. #271
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not that rare. I gave you some numbers.

    Statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention showed that, on average, one child every three days died in accidental incidents in the United States from 2000 to 2005.
    ~120/ year, over a population of over 300,000,000, isn't rare?

    I'd bet more poeple die from accidentally swallowing toothpaste.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    So you're now saying "it doesn't matter what the first half says anyways", am i right? Just so I don't end up misrepresenting you.
    What the frst half says does matter.
    It doesn't, however, create a requirement that for the 2nd to protect the right, the right must be exercised within the context of a militia setting.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Really? And yet, hasn't it happened before where someone got angry, went right out and bought a gun, and acted?
    This would be 1st degree murder, which, my defintion, is not an act of passion.


    You're actually talking about something different than I am. Not passion, but anger. Sometimes a few days to settle down isn't much to ask. And it doesn't really hurt anyone to wait, does it? If so, exactly how?
    A right delayed is a right denied.

    As for automatic weapons, I don't see anyone with a nuke or a tank either, and I see no problem denying them to people.
    That's because nukes and tanks are not 'arms' as the term is used in the 2nd. Automatic weapons -- indeed, any class of firearm - are.

    That YOU see no need for them does not create a sound argument for infringing on my right to have and use one.

    And, as a note, I DO see people with tanks and other privately-owned armored vehicles.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This would be 1st degree murder, which, my defintion, is not an act of passion.
    Don't disagree that it would be murder. Not arguing it's an act of passion. But that we do tend to calm down when we have time to think.

    A right delayed is a right denied.
    Nice catch phrase, but in this case not really accurate.

    That's because nukes and tanks are not 'arms' as the term is used in the 2nd. Automatic weapons -- indeed, any class of firearm - are.

    That YOU see no need for them does not create a sound argument for infringing on my right to have and use one.

    And, as a note, I DO see people with tanks and other privately-owned armored vehicles.
    What will you use one on? Duck? Quail? Deer? Bear?

    And tank is more then armored btw. It has weapons.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Don't disagree that it would be murder. Not arguing it's an act of passion. But that we do tend to calm down when we have time to think.
    Well heck -- we can delay the exercise any number of rights on those grounds!
    I'm sorry -- you have to wait 90 days to have an abortion, just to make sure you aren't acting rashly.

    Nice catch phrase, but in this case not really accurate.
    If it is accurate at all, then it is accurate every time a right is delayed.
    You disagree with Dr. King?

    What will you use one on? Duck? Quail? Deer? Bear?
    False premise as The 2nd amendment isn't about hunting.

    And tank is more then armored btw. It has weapons.
    Doesnt change the fact that there are many tanks in private hands.

    And I note you side-stepped:

    That's because nukes and tanks are not 'arms' as the term is used in the 2nd. Automatic weapons -- indeed, any class of firearm - are.

    That YOU see no need for them does not create a sound argument for infringing on my right to have and use one.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 04-27-10 at 05:50 PM.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Don't disagree that it would be murder. Not arguing it's an act of passion. But that we do tend to calm down when we have time to think.



    Nice catch phrase, but in this case not really accurate.



    What will you use one on? Duck? Quail? Deer? Bear?

    And tank is more then armored btw. It has weapons.
    Having a bit of experience with the criminal justice system I can tell you heat of passion does not normally survive a trip to the gun store. If you are mad enough to go out, buy a gun fill out the paperwork etc to cap someone you are now in the premeditated area of homicide and a cooling off period is not gonna stop that. A major CDC study of the brady bill's waiting period concluded that the only crimes that may have been lowered by a waiting period was SUICIDES among ONE age cohort

    There is dozens of cases of people dying because they had to wait to get a gun. The most famous IIRC was a lady in the military-in VA I believe who got a restraining order against an ex and then tried to buy a gun when he violated the RO. He whacked her between the time she purchased the weapon and when she would have been allowed to take delivery.

    You wanna wait 5 days if there is another Rodney King type riot?

    ONe last point dealing with something you said earlier--if machine guns have no legitimate purpose in a civilian environment why does every major CIVILIAN law enforcement agency-from the IRS-CID to the Fish and Natural Resources (Smokey the Bear types) have them?



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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Back up JR, I didn't say it was wrong, I asked you to explain the difference.

    However, notice what is sourced:

    What are the statistics about young people and firearm deaths and injuries?
    The 2002 edition of Injury Facts from the National Safety Council reports the following statistics [1] :

    * In 1999, 3,385 children and youth ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun. This includes homicides, suicides, and unintentional injuries.
    * This is equivalent to about 9 deaths per day, a figure commonly used by journalists.
    * The 3,385 firearms-related deaths for age group 0-19 years breaks down to:Four teen boys
    o 214 unintentional
    o 1,078 suicides
    o 1,990 homicides
    o 83 for which the intent could not be determined
    o 20 due to legal intervention
    * Of the total firearms-related deaths:
    o 73 were of children under five years old
    o 416 were children 5-14 years old
    o 2,896 were 15-19 years old

    For more information: Child Trends DataBank has available these teen homicide, suicide and firearm death statistics.

    In addition to firearm deaths, we need to look at how many children and young people are hurt by guns. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reports that in 1997, 2,514 children aged 0-14 were non-fatally injured by guns. In the same year, 30,225 young people aged 15-24 sustained nonfatal firearm injuries. These statistics include suicide attempts and both intentional and accidental shootings [2].

    Gun Safety for Kids and Youth: Your Child: University of Michigan Health System

    Again, using the same source but saying something different. Can you explain?


    18-19 year olds are serving in the infantry in Iraq. Many drug gangs recruit "children" because they don't get the same sort of time for being caught with a nickel bag of crack. 214 accidental deaths are all bad but that is an extremely low number given 200-300 million firearms in the USA and is lower than it was about 40 million guns ago.



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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    googogo populism
    Don't tread on me= Don't tread on my corporate masters

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Well heck -- we can delay the exercise any number of rights on those grounds!
    I'm sorry -- you have to wait 90 days to have an abortion, just to make sure you aren't acting rashly.
    I don't believe the waiting period is 90 days. In fact, I think with better computers it is almost not at all presently. So, I'm not sure of your complaint.

    Initially, the Brady Act imposed a waiting period of five days before a handgun could be transferred to an individual by a licensed dealer, importer, or manufacturer. This waiting period ceased to apply on November 30, 1998, when the computerized instant check system came online.

    Currently, 92% of Brady background checks through NICS are completed while the FBI is still on the phone with the gun dealer [2]. In rare cases, a gun purchaser may have to wait for up to three business days if the NICS system fails to positively approve or deny his/her application to purchase a firearm. If a denial is not issued within those three days, the transfer may be completed at that time.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Handgun_Violence_Prevention_Act]Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

    All I've said is that I see no urgency to get a weapon, and I still don't. A few days denies no one anything.

    If it is accurate at all, then it is accurate every time a right is delayed. You disagree with Dr. King?
    No, you're taking an apple and trying to apply it to a tree a frog. If King was told he had to wait 5 days for the paper work, he would have been find. Saying you have to wait until the time is right, which amounts to never, is very different. You're misreading the situations and the sentiment and how it applies.


    False premise as The 2nd amendment isn't about hunting.
    Nor was in not about anything. The second amendment was about a need to a citizen army, something we really don't have today. The reason the 2nd amendment was written is no longer valid today. But my point had nothing to do with that. By point was that a weapon is a tool, nothing more and nothing less, so what will you use this tool for?

    Doesnt change the fact that there are many tanks in private hands.

    And I note you side-stepped:

    That's because nukes and tanks are not 'arms' as the term is used in the 2nd. Automatic weapons -- indeed, any class of firearm - are.

    That YOU see no need for them does not create a sound argument for infringing on my right to have and use one.
    I didn't side strep it; it simply has nothing to with my point. The courts have ruled rather consistently that there is no universal right to any weapon, any fire arm. States have made restrictions and they have held. You may not agree with the rulings, but there are limitations, and need and purpose does play a role.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    ~120/ year, over a population of over 300,000,000, isn't rare?

    I'd bet more poeple die from accidentally swallowing toothpaste.
    Falling down claims more lives per year than accidental shootings.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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