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Thread: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Well at least you can defend your gun advocacy!

    I have no problem with sane individuals owning weaponry. What I do have a problem with is the amount of violence when the amount of guns carried publicly goes up. It's just statistically inevitable that guns per square yard or whatever going up increases probability of violence.
    The fact that the number of guns ioncreases every year while the yearly crime rates fluctuate within a very narrow range negates this idea.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    The fact that the number of guns ioncreases every year while the yearly crime rates fluctuate within a very narrow range negates this idea.
    number of guns per year also increases a very narrow range every year as well :P
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    number of guns per year also increases a very narrow range every year as well
    But the -fact- is that is the number of guns goes up every single year -- and crime does not. Crime now is lower than in the early 90s; since then the number of guns in the US has increased by as many as 40 million.

    If more guns = more crime, then as the number of guns rises so too must crime. if crime goes down when the number of guns goes up then more guns = more crime must be false.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    But the -fact- is that is the number of guns goes up every single year -- and crime does not. Crime now is lower than in the early 90s; since then the number of guns in the US has increased by as many as 40 million.

    If more guns = more crime, then as the number of guns rises so too must crime. if crime goes down when the number of guns goes up then more guns = more crime must be false.
    im going to need to see some research and I still don't believe that as gun ownership increases, crime rate(however minimally) will go up as a correlation
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    im going to need to see some research
    Have at it.

    and I still don't believe that as gun ownership increases, crime rate(however minimally) will go up as a correlation
    Its YOUR claim that it does:

    It's just statistically inevitable that guns per square yard or whatever going up increases probability of violence

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Have at it.


    Its YOUR claim that it does:
    Sorry I meant to say "do believe"

    Long day

    And I want you to post research that refutes that
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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Sorry I meant to say "do believe"
    Long day
    And I want you to post research that refutes that
    Ok... lets look at a 15 year-range (just becaiuse I can get the numbers easily) where viiolent crime fell 25%

    Violent crimes reported, as per the FBI:

    2008: 1,382,012
    Violent Crime - Crime in the United States 2008

    1994: 1,857,670
    http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/Cius_97/95CRIME/95crime2.pdf

    Thus, the nuimber of crimes has gone down.
    Not just the crime rate, but the raw number of crimes.

    Now, according to the USDOJ, in 1994, 44 million Americans owned 192 million
    firearms, 65 million of which were handguns.
    http://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt

    The BATF notes that ther were 108,000,000 NICS checks for gun transfers, the majority of which were for new guns. Assume that only half this number were for new guns, and you get 54,000,000 new guns (1999-2009).
    http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/nics_checks_total.pdf

    So, using just that low estimate and ingoring the 5 years not covered by the data, the number of guns in the US increased 28% 1994-2009.

    So, 1994-2009
    Crime down 25%
    Number of guns up >28%

    Thus:
    More guns does not equal more crime.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Well at least you can defend your gun advocacy!

    I have no problem with sane individuals owning weaponry. What I do have a problem with is the amount of violence when the amount of guns carried publicly goes up. It's just statistically inevitable that guns per square yard or whatever going up increases probability of violence.
    I guess your stats teacher forgot to tell you that "I say so" isn't a legitimate form of statistical analysis.
    Last edited by 1984; 04-15-10 at 06:09 PM.

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Well at least you can defend your gun advocacy!

    I have no problem with sane individuals owning weaponry. What I do have a problem with is the amount of violence when the amount of guns carried publicly goes up. It's just statistically inevitable that guns per square yard or whatever going up increases probability of violence.

    Really? You sure about that? Lets see your "evidence"
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  10. #120
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Oklahoma Tea Party Plans To Form Armed Militia

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    Well at least you can defend your gun advocacy!
    It's not advocacy, it's called the Constitution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z3n View Post
    I have no problem with sane individuals owning weaponry. What I do have a problem with is the amount of violence when the amount of guns carried publicly goes up. It's just statistically inevitable that guns per square yard or whatever going up increases probability of violence.
    The facts are against you on this one. Since you make a claim of statistical inevitability, I'm sure you won't have any problems supporting your point.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

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