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US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

Surely you remember it. They claimed to have been fired at and shot up some civilians. The military tried to prosecute, but evidence was hard to come by. Still, it was the military that had the problem with them.





And the boo radley patented shuffle.



Link please. :roll:
 
And the boo radley patented shuffle.



Link please. :roll:

Surely I'm not more informed than you?

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_killings]Haditha killings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 




Ahh... ok, so your spin is they are all guilty but "not enough evidence"... So much for "innocent until proven guilty"..

Note some of those marines were not just dismissed or acquitted, but were declared "innocent"....


I figured you were going there, but wanted to give you the rope to hang yourself. :shrug:
 
I am apalled by the cavalier disregard of the majority of contributors to this thread, who feel that in the interest of "better be safe than sorry", it is permissable to light up an entire bus full of passengers. If that is the continuing opinion of the veterans on this board, then your service was not honorable. This nation is better than that, and I believe our servicemen and women are not served by your attempts to associate with them.
 
I am apalled by the cavalier disregard of the majority of contributors to this thread, who feel that in the interest of "better be safe than sorry", it is permissable to light up an entire bus full of passengers. If that is the continuing opinion of the veterans on this board, then your service was not honorable. This nation is better than that, and I believe our servicemen and women are not served by your attempts to associate with them.




East thing to say from the tactical vantage point of your momma's couch. :shrug:




"our attempts to associate" with them? I signed on the line, served my country in battle..... There is no association, I am them.


Who are you again? :ssst:
 
I am apalled by the cavalier disregard of the majority of contributors to this thread, who feel that in the interest of "better be safe than sorry", it is permissable to light up an entire bus full of passengers. If that is the continuing opinion of the veterans on this board, then your service was not honorable. This nation is better than that, and I believe our servicemen and women are not served by your attempts to associate with them.

It's a bus that the soldiers reportedly went to great lengths to not fire upon. At some point, when the bus is not stopping despite all the signaling(which puts those signaling at some risk), they have to be able to open fire. There is nothing cavalier about that.
 
It's a bus that the soldiers reportedly went to great lengths to not fire upon. At some point, when the bus is not stopping despite all the signaling(which puts those signaling at some risk), they have to be able to open fire. There is nothing cavalier about that.




I'd argue at a certain point not firing upon it would be being cavilier with ones own life. :shrug:
 
I'd argue at a certain point not firing upon it would be being cavilier with ones own life. :shrug:

And those one is closest to. If it makes me a bad person to kill to protect those I live, sleep, eat, ****, shower with every day, I am ok with that.
 
And those one is closest to. If it makes me a bad person to kill to protect those I live, sleep, eat, ****, shower with every day, I am ok with that.




Hell, they might catch me "laughing" about it..... ;)
 
a cowardly sentiment from a supposed veteran

Dude, what? That doesn't even make sense. You're saying at no point should soldiers have fired on that bus. Barreling down a sidewalk, closing in on a school, doesn't matter to you!
 
I don't know if anyone's saying that. It's just some people are annoyed that our soldiers are expected to walk on egg shells while they are being shot at.

I don't think any reasonable person expects that. The mission they have been given is a tough one to say the least, but it is the mission. They are not fighting any army, really. Not fighting any country. So, they are charged with nation building and winning hearts and minds. Not the mission they are best designed for, but the one they have. Again, that's why I think our leaders share some of the blame here.
 
Ahh... ok, so your spin is they are all guilty but "not enough evidence"... So much for "innocent until proven guilty"..

Note some of those marines were not just dismissed or acquitted, but were declared "innocent"....


I figured you were going there, but wanted to give you the rope to hang yourself. :shrug:

No spin. The fact is it did go anywhere due to lack of evidence. I said nothing about their guilt one way or the other. You are again reading into things that which is not there.

BTW, there was this in the link:

As of June 17, 2008, six defendants had their cases dropped and one was found not guilty. The exception is SSgt. Wuterich, whose trial date has been postponed.[12] At least three officers have been officially reprimanded for failing to properly initially report and investigate the killings.[13]

And the only reason it was mentioned was to say the military charged them, not anyone else.
 
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While it is true some jump to that conclusion, there are also others who see any questioning as condemnation. I just think we need a little balance. And that requires an admission that they can go too far.

I think the military leadership DOES examine when people have gone too far. Unlike the murderous scumbags that look into the camera gleefully singing to Allah while the chop a prisoners head off, we investigated and tried and ultimately convicted and jailed people for 'embarrasing' prisoners at Abu Graib.

The story that was posted cited one or two lines that might be interpreted that the military did indeed exercise restraint and attempted to warn the bus. Was that balanced? Fair? While this convoy of 'nation builders' was busy clearing the highway of mines and IEDs that the POS scumbags planted, they by their account had a bus that refused to slow down despite repeated warnings.

Start with THAT...and I bet we could have a pretty balanced discussion.
 
I think the military leadership DOES examine when people have gone too far. Unlike the murderous scumbags that look into the camera gleefully singing to Allah while the chop a prisoners head off, we investigated and tried and ultimately convicted and jailed people for 'embarrasing' prisoners at Abu Graib.

The story that was posted cited one or two lines that might be interpreted that the military did indeed exercise restraint and attempted to warn the bus. Was that balanced? Fair? While this convoy of 'nation builders' was busy clearing the highway of mines and IEDs that the POS scumbags planted, they by their account had a bus that refused to slow down despite repeated warnings.

Start with THAT...and I bet we could have a pretty balanced discussion.

That is what they are reporting, and I have no reason to dispute it. But was the bus anything but civilians? If that's all it was, they weren't scum bags and while it might not be criminal, it is surely a shame if they were only civilians. And being bother by that would be fair. I would bet those who did the shooting are bothered.

Fair means stepping back, waiting, hearing all the testimony out, learning and not assuming. Am I wrong about that?
 
Dude, what? That doesn't even make sense. You're saying at no point should soldiers have fired on that bus. Barreling down a sidewalk, closing in on a school, doesn't matter to you!

You are making up crap I never said. Reports say that when the bus was fired on, it was pulled to the side of the road, with two convoys passing on the highway in opposite directions. Where did the sidewalk and the school come from anyway? Commanding officers have already said this was a tragedy and not within the rules of engagement, so why do you leap to defend the killers and ridicule those who believe the lives of a bus full of civilians has every bit as much value as the lives of American soldiers?
 
You are making up crap I never said. Reports say that when the bus was fired on, it was pulled to the side of the road, with two convoys passing on the highway in opposite directions. Where did the sidewalk and the school come from anyway? Commanding officers have already said this was a tragedy and not within the rules of engagement, so why do you leap to defend the killers and ridicule those who believe the lives of a bus full of civilians has every bit as much value as the lives of American soldiers?

Your article does not support your claim that the CO said it was not within the rules of engagement, it really is too early to tell. The reports on the bus's actions leading up to the shooting are disputed, with the more reliable source(the military) saying they made significant efforts to stop the bus, but it did not.

Why do you leap to villianize those who are serving their country and defending your right to post any kind of outrageous **** on a message board you want? You are jumping to conclusions with an absence of facts to support it. I suspect(any one can confirm?) that this incident will most likely have been videotaped from somewhere, and I promise you that tape will be gone over in great detail if it does exist.

Right now none of us know for sure what happened. The best we can do is theorize. Based on the knowledge some of us have with the military, we can at least make educated theories.
 
I am not making fun of or dismissing the deaths of Afghan civilians but let’s be serious here this is classic Collateral damage

This obviously was not a normal event. Something went wrong here and we would need a more investigation to figure what actually happened here.
 
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You are making up crap I never said. Reports say that when the bus was fired on, it was pulled to the side of the road, with two convoys passing on the highway in opposite directions. Where did the sidewalk and the school come from anyway? Commanding officers have already said this was a tragedy and not within the rules of engagement, so why do you leap to defend the killers and ridicule those who believe the lives of a bus full of civilians has every bit as much value as the lives of American soldiers?

Okay, let's play the ole "what did I post?" game. The Rev said:

I'd argue at a certain point not firing upon it would be being cavilier with ones own life.

To which you replied:

a cowardly sentiment from a supposed veteran

Which seems a pretty clear indication to me that you strongly disagree with his sentiments that after a certain point not firing on it would be careless with your own life.
 
Such a terrible game to have to play. :mrgreen:;) I hate it when that happens. :lol:

Me too. Then I have to open multiple windows so I can copy the right posts. Blech!
 
Ignoring this article for a moment, just a question, is it possible to ever criticize the military on any action they take? Or is any criticism always seen as being anti military? I really am curious.
Well criticizing is all you ever do. So it's safe to assume the military is a bunch of no good killers in your eyes.
 
The frequency of such occurrences of collateral/friendly fire incidients might lead some to the conclusion that it is safer to be an enemy than a friend.
 
That is what they are reporting, and I have no reason to dispute it. But was the bus anything but civilians? If that's all it was, they weren't scum bags and while it might not be criminal, it is surely a shame if they were only civilians. And being bother by that would be fair. I would bet those who did the shooting are bothered.

Fair means stepping back, waiting, hearing all the testimony out, learning and not assuming. Am I wrong about that?

When you are in a combat zone...and a bus is bearing down on you, ignoring flares and warnings...just how do you determine that "oh...hey...its cool...they are all civilians"?

So by all means. Stop...weigh it...hear it out. Dont assume ****. One way OR the other.
 
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