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Thread: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

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    Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I give them, US troops, our brothers and sisters the benefit of the doubt.... there is no "if" in my book at this point.
    In other words, you don't really want to know. You merely want to believe regardless of facts. We don't know the facts, and I accept that. But your statement is one that suggests you would not care what the facts are, and I can't support that.

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    Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    I never said free reign. I gave rules about the level of risk I was comfortable with our forces taking before firing on someone. If they know someone is a civilian and they intentionally shoot them, that's bad and should be punished. Any other situation...as long as it's not habitual, I'm not the one being shot at on a daily basis. I'm not going to judge what they need to do to feel safe and get back to their families.
    That's not the only way they could break the rules. Being too shaky, too quick to act, too reckless could also be a problem. It is not enough to say they feared something. There would also have to be reason to fear it, to be concerned, following a proper procedure. All professionals are held to such standards. They always have been.

    Nor am I asking you to judge. Not me either for that matter. But there are those charged with doing that, and they may well find fault. If they do, then there may well be good reason for it. If they don't, then there may well be reason for that as well.

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    Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    In other words, you don't really want to know. You merely want to believe regardless of facts. We don't know the facts, and I accept that. But your statement is one that suggests you would not care what the facts are, and I can't support that.
    No, that is not it. Our soldiers are trained to be situationally aware, much moreso than a bunch of random people in a bus. When there is conflicting testimony, the odds on favorite is that the soldiers view of the situation is more accurate. Further, our soldiers are some of the best people in our country, and as such deserve the benefit of the doubt, until and unless such time as they are proven to be wrong.

    And again, this will be investigated. People are going over the testimony and data from the encounter right now, I guarantee it.
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    Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    In other words, you don't really want to know. You merely want to believe regardless of facts. We don't know the facts, and I accept that. But your statement is one that suggests you would not care what the facts are, and I can't support that.



    Wow, if you live in the land of unicorns and tooth fairies, I could see how you arrived at that conclusion, but since we are in reality, I'll try to explain my clear point so that you don't feel so left out.



    As other have suggested, there is little to no chance they did this for ****s and giggles, and giving them the benefit of the doubt in no way indicates a lack of desire for an investigation.



    On what basis do you think its a 50/50 proposition that they may or may not have done this on purpose?



    Sad really. seeing you post something indicating a lack of "innocent until proven guilty" for those who serve. Shame.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The odds of them not acting in good faith, that they intended to smoke a few civies, is slim to none. That does not mean mistakes where not made, they may have been, But they still acted in good faith to try and perform their duty and do the right thing.

    Trust me, this will be investigated. The military loves to investigate things. People will look for ways to improve the way these soldiers handle the situation, either by showing the soldiers involved where they made those mistakes, or by changing the rules if appropriate. It is one of the things the military does, and it's why we have the best military in the world.
    Yes, I agree it is slim, but not impossible. I suspect it is more likely a mistake if anything, and probably an understandable one. What I object to is the sheer notion that any question means lack of support.

    And yes, I think it will be investigated, and mostly in a fair way.

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    Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

    For me this, is too early to draw anything from this incident in question. Thought I am not trying too defend anything my sympathies goes out too the families of the civilians in question.

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    Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's not the only way they could break the rules. Being too shaky, too quick to act, too reckless could also be a problem. It is not enough to say they feared something. There would also have to be reason to fear it, to be concerned, following a proper procedure. All professionals are held to such standards. They always have been.

    Nor am I asking you to judge. Not me either for that matter. But there are those charged with doing that, and they may well find fault. If they do, then there may well be good reason for it. If they don't, then there may well be reason for that as well.
    I'd rather them be too shaky, too reckless, or too quick to act 100% of the time then put themselves in harm's way.
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    Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Wow, if you live in the land of unicorns and tooth fairies, I could see how you arrived at that conclusion, but since we are in reality, I'll try to explain my clear point so that you don't feel so left out.



    As other have suggested, there is little to no chance they did this for ****s and giggles, and giving them the benefit of the doubt in no way indicates a lack of desire for an investigation.



    On what basis do you think its a 50/50 proposition that they may or may not have done this on purpose?



    Sad really. seeing you post something indicating a lack of "innocent until proven guilty" for those who serve. Shame.
    I have tried to stay away from this particular incident as we really don't have enough information and comment only on your statement, which was:

    I give them, US troops, our brothers and sisters the benefit of the doubt.... there is no "if" in my book at this point.
    When you declare that there is never an if, you are actually saying you don't really want to know and don't care about the facts of any case. I see this far too often and is the point I have been trying to make.

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    Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I have tried to stay away from this particular incident as we really don't have enough information and comment only on your statement, which was:



    When you declare that there is never an if, you are actually saying you don't really want to know and don't care about the facts of any case. I see this far too often and is the point I have been trying to make.
    I think when he said "at this point," it should have been clear to you he was talking about this case and the information that we have about it.
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    Re: US troops fire on Afghan bus, killing at least 5 civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I have tried to stay away from this particular incident as we really don't have enough information and comment only on your statement, which was:



    When you declare that there is never an if, you are actually saying you don't really want to know and don't care about the facts of any case. I see this far too often and is the point I have been trying to make.




    Selective quoting... You forgot "at this point"..... FAIL
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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