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Thread: Some Republicans embrace 'Party of No'

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    Re: Some Republicans embrace 'Party of No'

    Quote Originally Posted by F107HyperSabr View Post
    Speaking of mistruths why do you continue to state the big mistruth about the health insurance reform bill and the abortion lie ?
    What abortion lie?

    Are you going to argue that the Hyde Amendment applied to Obamacare? No? Ok.

    So, what provision(s) in the Obamacare bill prevented federal funding for abortion?

    I mean, I don't mean to be, uh, factual or anything, but why did 12 Democrats oppose Obamacare prior to the issuance of an EO which alleges to amend the enacted legislation if such provisions preventing fed funding for abortions were in the legislation?

    Help me out here...

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    Re: Some Republicans embrace 'Party of No'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    I already did...

    Table 2 - look at the +/- change in coverage for those covered via employed and the nongroup/other. One is -5 million and the other is -4 million. Meaning that, in total, the change for these two groups = -9 million. Get it?
    The only reason some people will lose coverage is because some of the companies will choose to pay the penalty rather than cover their employees. How is that Obama's fault?

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    Re: Some Republicans embrace 'Party of No'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    Remember the context...

    Obama promised that if we like our current health insurance that we could keep it...

    That was what the GOP was pushing back against.

    How many times did Obama promise thaat we could keep our insurance if we liked it?

    I guess if you ignore that then you can argue that the GOP was just making a bad faith argument. But, unfortunately, facts are stingy things. And the fact here is that the GOP was pushing back against Obama's repeated promises despite the fact that Obama knew this was false.
    The table is unclear, but some things to remember. The population is still I believe aging, so some of those will move into Medicaid and CHIP, some employers will move over time to other sources of insurance(this happens now, my employer has changed sources of insurance twice during my tenure there). Some may choose a different source of insurance. It does not necessarily mean that people are going to be forced out of their health plan. Again, the table is not clear, so neither you nor I can judge based on that data.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Some Republicans embrace 'Party of No'

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    “We shouldn't just be the 'party of no,' we should be the 'party of hell no.'” — Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal

    "There is no shame in being the 'party of no' if the other side proposes something that violates our Constitution and conscience.” — former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin

    The ‘Party of No’ seems to fit as far as I am concerned.
    I do not see what the big deal is. Do you vote for democrats just so they can vote for the same things that republicans vote for? If parties did not oppose each other then what would be the point of voting for a democrat,republican or some other party? I know I did not vote for my elected representatives just so they can vote for things I oppose and oppose the things I support. Living in SanFransicko I am sure you would not vote for a republican unless he was really liberal just so he can oppose the things you support and support the things you oppose.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 04-10-10 at 12:58 AM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Some Republicans embrace 'Party of No'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    What abortion lie?

    Are you going to argue that the Hyde Amendment applied to Obamacare? No? Ok.

    So, what provision(s) in the Obamacare bill prevented federal funding for abortion?

    I mean, I don't mean to be, uh, factual or anything, but why did 12 Democrats oppose Obamacare prior to the issuance of an EO which alleges to amend the enacted legislation if such provisions preventing fed funding for abortions were in the legislation?

    Help me out here...
    Some very good reading on the abortion question. The Abortion Issue | FactCheck.org
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Some Republicans embrace 'Party of No'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The table is unclear,
    No. It is clear.

    9 million with employer coverage and non-group or other coverage will lose that coverage according to the CBO.

    What's not clear?

    That was absurd, Redress, claiming it was not clear. CBO's analysis said 9 million lose their coverage. I don't know how that could be unclear.

    The population is still I believe aging, so some of those will move into Medicaid and CHIP, some employers will move over time to other sources of insurance(this happens now, my employer has changed sources of insurance twice during my tenure there). Some may choose a different source of insurance. It does not necessarily mean that people are going to be forced out of their health plan.
    Forced or otherwise is irrelevant.

    Obama promised repeatedly that we could keep our current coverage, no?

    That is what the GOP was pushing back against.

    Again, the table is not clear, so neither you nor I can judge based on that data.
    No, it is clear. This is such a weak argument you're presenting. It ignores the entire debate on this point about maintaining your current coverage and it seems to obfuscate clear data to defend Obama on this repeated promise of his.

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    Re: Some Republicans embrace 'Party of No'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    No. It is clear.

    9 million with employer coverage and non-group or other coverage will lose that coverage according to the CBO.

    What's not clear?

    That was absurd, Redress, claiming it was not clear. CBO's analysis said 9 million lose their coverage. I don't know how that could be unclear.



    Forced or otherwise is irrelevant.

    Obama promised repeatedly that we could keep our current coverage, no?

    That is what the GOP was pushing back against.



    No, it is clear. This is such a weak argument you're presenting. It ignores the entire debate on this point about maintaining your current coverage and it seems to obfuscate clear data to defend Obama on this repeated promise of his.
    The table does not show any one forced out of their insurance. It shows the types of coverages shifting. One example is people leaving the workforce and going on Medicaid. I believe small employers are a growing employer, and those are less likely to offer insurance. You are interpreting it one way, without any actual backing evidence, and not noticing that the total insured is going up, rapidly, as is the total percentage insured.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Some Republicans embrace 'Party of No'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Some very good reading on the abortion question. The Abortion Issue | FactCheck.org
    Good reading...yes.

    Doesn't change the fact that the EO, which wouldn't have been necessary if Obamacare actually prevent such funding, cannot enact legislation that Congress failed to enact...specifically, funding appropriations for the CHCs bypass the Labor/HHS budget which is affected by the Hyde Amendment and are appropriated into a new CHC fund.

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    Re: Some Republicans embrace 'Party of No'

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative Sword View Post
    What abortion lie?

    Are you going to argue that the Hyde Amendment applied to Obamacare? No? Ok.

    So, what provision(s) in the Obamacare bill prevented federal funding for abortion?

    I mean, I don't mean to be, uh, factual or anything, but why did 12 Democrats oppose Obamacare prior to the issuance of an EO which alleges to amend the enacted legislation if such provisions preventing fed funding for abortions were in the legislation?

    Help me out here...
    There does not need to be any "provision" to restrict abortion coverage since none is afforded. You rant becomes moot.
    I do not recall the Viet Cong asking me if I was a natural born or Naturalized American before they shot at me, they just shot at all of us f107HyperSabr

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    Re: Some Republicans embrace 'Party of No'

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The table does not show any one forced out of their insurance
    Of course it doesn't. It is CBO's estimate based on the legislation. CBO estimates that the legislation will cause a change in coverage for at least 9 million people...

    The GOP argued against Obama's repeated promises that we could keep our current plans. The CBO estimate justified the GOP's criticism. Hence, the criticism is not the alleged mistruth or absurd opposition as another poster claimed it was.

    It shows the types of coverages shifting.
    No, you're inferring that. The CBO merely estimated the change in coverage.

    One example is people leaving the workforce and going on Medicaid. I believe small employers are a growing employer, and those are less likely to offer insurance. You are interpreting it one way, without any actual backing evidence, and not noticing that the total insured is going up, rapidly, as is the total percentage insured.
    You're ignoring the discussion I was having.

    I was not presenting the CBO data to argue anything other than against another poster's comment that the GOP used mistruths and absurd complaints. I demonstrated that was false as this claim by the GOP was premised upon CBO estimates.

    You are here defending the legislation...whatever. That was not the discussion I was engaged in.

    Care to join the actual discussion about the legitimacy of that poster's actual comments or are you going to argue with yourself?

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