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Thread: Netanyahu cancels trip to Obama's nuclear summit

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    wʜɪтe яussɪaи Tashah's Avatar
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    Re: Netanyahu cancels trip to Obama's nuclear summit

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And yet Israel not only refuses to acknowledge this, but in fact they often have said they dont have nukes or refuse to comment on it.
    Cites please. Show us when Israel has ever outright denied having nuclear weapons. Israel has always neither confirmed nor denied nuclear capability.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    They also refuse to sign the non proliferation treaty.. because they dont have nukes after all..
    If Israel has nukes, they acquired this capability before the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (1969/1970).

    There is little doubt that some time in the late sixties Israel became the sixth nation to manufacture nuclear weapons. The Samson Option states that Moshe Dayan gave the go-ahead for starting weapon production in early 1968, putting the plutonium separation plant into full operation. Israel began producing three to five bombs a year. The book Critical Mass asserts that Israel had two bombs in 1967, and that Prime Minister Eshkol ordered them armed in Israel's first nuclear alert during the Six-Day War.[54] Avner Cohen in his recent book, Israel and the Bomb, agrees that Israel had a deliverable nuclear capability in the 1967 war. He quotes Munya Mardor, leader of Rafael, the Armament Development Authority, and other unnamed sources, that Israel “cobbled together” two deliverable devices.[55]
    FAS - Federation of American Scientists

    Under the NPT guidelines, this would make Israel a pre-existing nuclear power with the same perks enjoyed by the United States, Britain, France, Russia, and China. Israel has never proliferated in either nuclear technology or nuclear materials.

    With the nascent rise of post-NPT nuclear states (North Korea, Pakistan, India, Iran), the NPT is losing all credibility as more nations (Syria/Egypt/KSA) explore the nuclear option.

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    Re: Netanyahu cancels trip to Obama's nuclear summit

    Israel clearly sees the writing on the wall. That is, the Obama administration favors the Palestinian cause. Their pro-Israel rhetoric in the campaign was only to avoid alienating the influential Jewish community in the U.S..

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    Re: Netanyahu cancels trip to Obama's nuclear summit

    Quote Originally Posted by MyOwnDrum View Post
    Israel clearly sees the writing on the wall. That is, the Obama administration favors the Palestinian cause. Their pro-Israel rhetoric in the campaign was only to avoid alienating the influential Jewish community in the U.S..


    For the reading impaired, here is the key line from the article linked in the OP. Usually a good idea to read those to avoid making stupid statements.

    He made the decision after learning Egypt and Turkey intended to raise the issue of Israel's assumed atomic arsenal at the meeting, a senior government official said on Friday.
    Now, what exactly does that have to do with Obama?

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    Re: Netanyahu cancels trip to Obama's nuclear summit

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post


    For the reading impaired, here is the key line from the article linked in the OP. Usually a good idea to read those to avoid making stupid statements.



    Now, what exactly does that have to do with Obama?

    ODS is not pretty.
    Such a clever girl...

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    Re: Netanyahu cancels trip to Obama's nuclear summit

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Officially, Israel has no nuclear weapons.

    I see your point now that it has been made clear her reason for not attending was because pressure was to be put on her to sign the npt.
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    Re: Netanyahu cancels trip to Obama's nuclear summit

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    I see your point now that it has been made clear her reason for not attending was because pressure was to be put on her to sign the npt.
    Alexa,

    Israel will be attending the conference, though with a lower-level delegation.

    Israel's strategic posture is one of deliberate ambiguity when it comes to nuclear weapons. Israel has adopted such a policy for a variety of reasons including deterrence created by possible possession of such weapons, avoiding an explicit declaration that could trigger a regional nuclear arms race, etc. Signing the NPT would not lead to Israel's having to eliminate its nuclear arsenal, as it would enter the NPT as a pre-existing nuclear power. However, it would be irreconcilable with its basic strategic doctrine, as such a move would eliminate any room for ambiguity. Israel still believes that ambiguity makes a contribution to its vital security needs.

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    Re: Netanyahu cancels trip to Obama's nuclear summit

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Alexa,

    Israel will be attending the conference, though with a lower-level delegation.

    Israel's strategic posture is one of deliberate ambiguity when it comes to nuclear weapons. Israel has adopted such a policy for a variety of reasons including deterrence created by possible possession of such weapons, avoiding an explicit declaration that could trigger a regional nuclear arms race, etc. Signing the NPT would not lead to Israel's having to eliminate its nuclear arsenal, as it would enter the NPT as a pre-existing nuclear power. However, it would be irreconcilable with its basic strategic doctrine, as such a move would eliminate any room for ambiguity. Israel still believes that ambiguity makes a contribution to its vital security needs.
    Maybe, and I do understand that Israel has a need to keep herself safe and everyone believing she has nuclear weapons may be a part of that, so please take it that I am recognising that.

    However, ambiguity also causes problems. It could mean that while other Middle Eastern countries signed NPT Israel did not because she did not yet have nuclear weapons...allowing other Middle eastern countries to think why should I not have weapons if Israel has got them after I signed up to NPT and Iran is getting them now too.

    Tashah I notice said that if Israel had Nuclear weapons she had them already before 1969/70, but how would we know if this was true?

    Obviously it is also necessary that Nations say whether they have them and sign up for NPT even if they do have them, so that we can hopefully start reducing them with the hope of eventually getting rid of the ability to destroy the world in a few seconds.

    So while Israel's position may suit Israel, as everyone knows she has nuclear weapons anyway, would it not be simpler if she just acknowledged it like everyone else, unless of course, which I very much doubt, she does not have them. Then it would possibly be a very good idea to remain quiet.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Netanyahu cancels trip to Obama's nuclear summit

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Tashah I notice said that if Israel had Nuclear weapons she had them already before 1969/70, but how would we know if this was true?
    Scientific documentation and internal government memos. In addition, nuclear physicists from both France and the United States knew in 1965 that Israel already possessed both the fissile material and the requisite bomb components. The only thing lacking was a means of delivery which was solved by 1968 at the very latest.

    Don't forget that Jewish physicists were instrumental in developing nuclear weapons for both the United States and Russia. Israel has never had a shortage of physicists (I am a physicist myself).

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    Re: Netanyahu cancels trip to Obama's nuclear summit

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    what a coward. Cancelling because he does not want to admit that Israel has nukes.. pathetic coward.
    How petty. Obama's nuclear summit isn't supposed to be about Israel, in case you were wondering.

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    Re: Netanyahu cancels trip to Obama's nuclear summit

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Alexa,

    Israel will be attending the conference, though with a lower-level delegation.

    Israel's strategic posture is one of deliberate ambiguity when it comes to nuclear weapons. Israel has adopted such a policy for a variety of reasons including deterrence created by possible possession of such weapons, avoiding an explicit declaration that could trigger a regional nuclear arms race, etc. Signing the NPT would not lead to Israel's having to eliminate its nuclear arsenal, as it would enter the NPT as a pre-existing nuclear power. However, it would be irreconcilable with its basic strategic doctrine, as such a move would eliminate any room for ambiguity. Israel still believes that ambiguity makes a contribution to its vital security needs.
    Honest question, since this confuses me. How is being unambiguously ambiguous a strategy? I mean, every one knows Israel has nukes, there is no real ambiguity there. So how does not admitting it effect strategy, outside of the NPT, and would signing the NPT have an effect on the number of nukes Israel could have?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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